Cyprus-Forum.com

[bill cobbett]

Shouldn't we rather talk about demilitarising and opening Varosha?

That would be a real test that would require more than the moving of a few meters of perspex and a handful of teenagers in fatiques and we could really dream then. (':angel:')

[Kikapu]

Kikapu,
Ah, got you

I know you did CopperLine.

It was directed at GeorgeV97.

[denizaksulu]

Open the crossing. The rest will follow.

"Field of Dreams". :D

I just meant that, "If you build it, they will come".

(It's from the movie "Field of Dreams" to those who got a little confused.)

Confused, Kikapu? You got me worried.

[GeorgeV97qaue]

Kikapu,
Ah, got you

I know you did CopperLine.

It was directed at GeorgeV97.

I understand

[Tim Drayton]

Overall, the underlying Turkish Cypriot agenda is one of PARTITION so any petty arguments pertaining to bringing the two communities together, such as the Ledra street gate/crossing, are moot.

Can you really think that the 75% who voted for voted for a BBF under the terms of the Annan Plan wanted Partition? Even you must admit that it's a strange way of trying for it.

During the three decades of Denktash, nobody in the TC community showed any interest in any liaison with the Greek Cypriots and it was predominantly the never-ending fluctuations of the Turkish Lira and scores of other problems that frustrated the TC community into seeking out an alternative solution with the “devil” on the other side of the fence.

When you say "nobody", is this hyperbole, or do you mean it literally? In the latter case, I suggest you do some research into a person named Ahmet Muzaffer Gurkan, who was murdered in 1962, and the circumstances behind his murder. Then perhaps you will understand why so few other people stepped out of line in those days.

I was unfortunate enough to have been one of the thousands of youngsters who served/guarded the infamous Green line during the notorious eighties when Turkish & Turkish Cypriot aggression to safeguard partition had reached its peak…

I forget not the hatred and ferocity with which they handled the rare event of two opposing soldiers (read kids) meeting up on the halfway line for something as innocent as a chat or exchange of cigarettes and magazines... a dear friend lost his life in one such occurrence.

I am truly sorry to hear that.

[DT.]

DT,
did you ever being northern part of the old Nicosia . Tell me where have you been seen the Turkish troops are patrolling in the streets. İ am asking you come with me and we can check it . You might tell ,that we asked them to hide than anytime any of you can pass easily from the leadra gate and walk in to the old Nicosia and tell us that troops are patrolling in the streets . we must not miss guide our people .we must tell the truth and they can force the politicians to solve this problem.

Halil, did i say the streets of nicosia? I said the street in the buffer zone under the bridge!

again DT,
just past the gate and come to lokmacı gate it easy to obser where is the soldiers are standing . how far away from the gate and where are they . if they can effect the civilians movement .
than compare GC's posts in Southern part of the Nicosia . İ am telling you no difference and no dangers for both side . They were only political tactics .

Halil, have seen the pictures in Phileleftheros of the troops passing fro under the bridge.

Anyway the latest proposal by the govt in Dec 2007 does not mention any of this. Why is the crossing not open yet?

This is the proposal:
- Opening the crossing point at Ledra street without any side proposing any terms or preconditions to UNFICYP.
- The two military sides to agree that UNFICYP will fully exercise the mandate, given to it by the Security Council, in the area of the buffer zone as this is marked in UNFICYP maps.
- The crossing point to open as soon as the practical arrangements are completed, which will have to meet all safety needs, as set out by UNFICYP, after consultations with the interested parties

What is wrong with your side?

Must be delay tactics?

I am with Halil on this one. No tactics. For a long time there was no wall on the TC side, just waiting for GC side to take down their wall. Ex-GC president started demanding conditions that apply at no other crossing.

Even when, with the world's media watching, he pulled down the wall, he immediately put up another temporary one. Now TCs have put up a similar one too.

As far as I know, there are no conditions on the TC side. Take down the GC temporary wall, the TC wall will be down in the time it takes to make a few phone calls.

I'm sorry but if you can't read the post before you then its not worth arguing. DId you read what i wrote about the latest proposals from the GC side in 2007? Can you find the conditions in that?

I've read it but can not remember any proposal, and having spent a little time on google, can find no reference to any GC proposal like this.

I'm genuinely interested. Can you direct me to who proposed it in December?

http://www.cyprus.gov.cy/MOI/pio/pio.ns ... ocument#12

New proposal by the Greek Cypriot side on the opening of the Ledra street and Pyrgos crossing points

“A new, revised proposal regarding the opening of the crossing points in Ledra street and in Pyrgos - Limnitis was submitted by President Papadopoulos, during his meeting with the UN Secretary-General on 23 September”, the Government Spokesman Mr Vassilis Palmas stated on 15 October. Mr Palmas revealed that the proposal envisaged the following:

· “Opening the crossing point in Ledra street without any of the sides proposing any terms or preconditions to UNFICYP.
· The two military sides will agree that UNFICYP will fully exercise the mandate, given to it by the Security Council, in the area of the buffer zone as this is marked in UNFICYP maps.
· The crossing point to open as soon as the practical arrangements will be completed, which will have to meet all safety needs.
· The crossing point in the Pyrgos-Limnits area to open as soon as possible and in any case before the end of 2007.”

[halil]

ERCAKICA COMMENTS ON THE OPENING OF LOKMACI CHECK POINT

The Presidential Spokesperson Hasan Ercakica has expressed the Turkish Cypriot side’s readiness to open the Lokmaci crossing point with its existing condition.

He also stressed that if the Greek Cypriot side has such an intention the timing of the opening of the Lokmaci gate is due to the decision of the Greek Cypriot leader Dimitris Christofias.
Speaking to the BRT on the issue, the Presidential Spokesperson Hasan Ercakica explained that the Turkish Cypriot side expressed its readiness to open the Lokmaci to the United Nations.

Reminding that the issue was discussed during the meeting between President Mehmet Ali Talat and the UN Secretary General’s Special Representative in Cyprus - UNFICYP Chief of Mission Michael Moller, he said the timing of the opening of Lokmaci is due to the decision of Mr. Christofias.

Commenting on the Greek Cypriot news that the Lokmaci crossing point would be opened soon, Mr. Ercakica said the opening of the Lokmaci is directly related to the attitude of the Greek Cypriot side.

“According to the Greek Cypriot media the issue will be on the agenda of the meeting between Mr. Christofias and Mr. Moller’s so we would like the see the result of that” he added.

In the meantime, the Greek Cypriot Government Spokesperson Stefanos Stefanu said that the opening of the Lokmaci check point will be discussed during the meeting between Mr. Christofias and Mr. Moller and also claimed that the Greek Cypriot side desires the opening of other check points.

Also speaking on the issue, the Mayor of South Lefkosa Eleni Mavru stated that the opening of the Lokmaci check point constitutes a political decision.

She also added there is no planned meeting with the Mayor of Lefkosa Cemal Bulutoglulari on the issue and said if there would be a need she is ready for cooperation.

[RebelWithoutAPause]

Why are you still letting Bayrak post on this website?

[observer]

DT

I'm sorry but if you can't read the post before you then its not worth arguing. DId you read what i wrote about the latest proposals from the GC side in 2007? Can you find the conditions in that?

Thanks for the link DT. Fascinating, because here is the UN Sec Gen's report S2007/699 published on 3 Dec 07.

I met with the leaders in New York — Mr. Papadopoulos on 23 September and Mr. Talat on 16 October. Expressing concern at the lack of progress, I urged both to move the process forward. Mr. Papadopoulos presented to me a number of proposals concerning the 8 July process and confidence-building measures. He also proposed the establishment of a civil society consultative body in support of the negotiationsprocess. Mr. Talat presented a set of proposals (see A/62/499-S/2007/625) on confidence-building measures, including the establishment of a reconciliation commission. Mr. Talat also called for the isolation of the Turkish Cypriots to be lifted and stated that the Ledra Street crossing should be opened without preconditions. In mid-October, Mr. Papadopoulos submitted to me a revised proposal. Since then, the main differences between the parties have centred onquestions concerning preparations for negotiations and the need for a time frame.

Since both leaders seemingly agreed to open the crossing wihout any preconditions, could someone who knows post why it is not open (and please stick to facts without hurling the usual generalised abuse)

[DT.]

DT

I'm sorry but if you can't read the post before you then its not worth arguing. DId you read what i wrote about the latest proposals from the GC side in 2007? Can you find the conditions in that?

Thanks for the link DT. Fascinating, because here is the UN Sec Gen's report S2007/699 published on 3 Dec 07.

I met with the leaders in New York — Mr. Papadopoulos on 23 September and Mr. Talat on 16 October. Expressing concern at the lack of progress, I urged both to move the process forward. Mr. Papadopoulos presented to me a number of proposals concerning the 8 July process and confidence-building measures. He also proposed the establishment of a civil society consultative body in support of the negotiationsprocess. Mr. Talat presented a set of proposals (see A/62/499-S/2007/625) on confidence-building measures, including the establishment of a reconciliation commission. Mr. Talat also called for the isolation of the Turkish Cypriots to be lifted and stated that the Ledra Street crossing should be opened without preconditions. In mid-October, Mr. Papadopoulos submitted to me a revised proposal. Since then, the main differences between the parties have centred onquestions concerning preparations for negotiations and the need for a time frame.

Since both leaders seemingly agreed to open the crossing wihout any preconditions, could someone who knows post why it is not open (and please stick to facts without hurling the usual generalised abuse)

would have created a momentum neither of the 2 were willing to follow through with.

As long as the PR campaign was carried out and both were seen as positive as each other then they can stop there.

Talat will find it difficult with Christofias's momentum though, he is preparing to announce 3-4 new initiatives.