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Lokmaci Gate

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Get Real! » Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:40 pm

Piratis wrote:
umidis wrote:
iceman wrote:
umidis wrote:There is only one Mayor of Nicosia and it ain't that Baboon bulutoglu.


From where i am standing,you are the one sounding like a baboon..go read your constitution before making a monkey of yourself.. :wink:



I guess you haven't read the constitution your undemocratic priveleges given to you by the British to create havoc, were all changed during the "democratization process" of 63.


1) Nothing was changed in 63 in the constitution.
2) Democracy is not somehting to be mocked about by placing it in quotes.

Umit, if you do not believe in things like democracy (the most important element of which is one person one vote), human rights and all the other universal principles, then you will never manage to be in our shoes and therefore you should consider your experiment as a failure already ;)

I think Umidis is referring to Makarios’ 13 points proposed towards a more democratic constitution.
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Postby Get Real! » Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:43 pm

observer wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
observer wrote:
Get Real! wrote:Overall, the underlying Turkish Cypriot agenda is one of PARTITION so any petty arguments pertaining to bringing the two communities together, such as the Ledra street gate/crossing, are moot.


Can you really think that the 75% who voted for voted for a BBF under the terms of the Annan Plan wanted Partition? Even you must admit that it's a strange way of trying for it.

During the three decades of Denktash, nobody in the TC community showed any interest in any liaison with the Greek Cypriots and it was predominantly the never-ending fluctuations of the Turkish Lira and scores of other problems that frustrated the TC community into seeking out an alternative solution with the “devil” on the other side of the fence.


That may be one part of it for some people, as everyone has their own political thought process. But I think that a far bigger reason for the 75% is that a new generation of voters has grown up to whom EOKA and enosis are just old folks tales. It was noticeable during the marches for the Annan Plan on this side that so many of those saying 'vote yes' were people too young to remember the time before 74.

You can live in the past with Denktas, Papadopoulos and others if you want, but I believe most TCs want a solution. A BBF solution first. If not, then a final separation.

Some of us are not fooled so easily…Anything outside of modern democracy reinforced by EU membership is PARTITION regardless of the abbreviated label attached to it.
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Postby Tim Drayton » Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:50 pm

Get Real! wrote:
observer wrote:
Get Real! wrote:Overall, the underlying Turkish Cypriot agenda is one of PARTITION so any petty arguments pertaining to bringing the two communities together, such as the Ledra street gate/crossing, are moot.


Can you really think that the 75% who voted for voted for a BBF under the terms of the Annan Plan wanted Partition? Even you must admit that it's a strange way of trying for it.

During the three decades of Denktash, nobody in the TC community showed any interest in any liaison with the Greek Cypriots and it was predominantly the never-ending fluctuations of the Turkish Lira and scores of other problems that frustrated the TC community into seeking out an alternative solution with the “devil” on the other side of the fence.


When you say "nobody", is this hyperbole, or do you mean it literally? In the latter case, I suggest you do some research into a person named Ahmet Muzaffer Gurkan, who was murdered in 1962, and the circumstances behind his murder. Then perhaps you will understand why so few other people stepped out of line in those days.
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Postby Piratis » Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:51 pm

There are now a little over 200 countries who are members of the United Nations. I don't know for sure, but I'm prepared to bet that every single one of them has a different constitution based on its own particular history. Cyprus' history seems to me to indicate that a loose federation is the best way to start. No community dominates, no community feels that the other is getting a bigger share of the cake. If it works, common interest will bring closer ties naturally. If it doesn't work then it is better to drift apart in agreement as Czechoslovakia has done.


My friend, you forget the most important element: The land you current sit on belongs by 82% to us. So about what Czechoslovakia are you talking about?? Thats totally irrelevant. Did the Slovaks stole the land of Slovakia from the Czechs or vice versa?? Slovaks and Czechs have historically been living in separate areas.

There is no modern state that was created by means of ethnic cleansing as you are trying to do. Maybe that happened a few times in the ancient years and in the middle ages, but today it is the 21st century. You can't act as an Ottoman and just steal the lands of others and declare land that belongs by 82% to us, as your state!! Yours based on what??? The big guns of Turkey?

TCs are a minority like the minorities of former colonialists that exist in most former colonies. Just like the Turks in Bulgaria or the Whites of South Africa. They do not own a separate area of the country like Czechs and Slovaks did, or like Kurds do in Turkey.

About the democratic systems:
These elements define the fundamental elements of all modern democracies, no matter how varied in history, culture, and economy. Despite their enormous differences as nations and societies, the essential elements of constitutional government--majority rule coupled with individual and minority rights, and the rule of law--can be found in Canada and Costa Rica, France and Botswana, Japan and India.

http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/w ... hatdm2.htm
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Postby GeorgeV97qaue » Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:56 pm

Well said Pirates. I totally agree mate. the only problem is the Turks will not give up the land they stole in 1974. The bastards want to keep it and eventually they will get what they want Partition.
Last edited by GeorgeV97qaue on Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby denizaksulu » Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:59 pm

humanist wrote:
Yes, this is a good starting point. Ledra Street should open immediately, now there are no excuses.


NO excuse ........... Have the Turkish troops withdrawn from the area? To make it safe for pedestrians.



I dont want them there either, but do you think they are going to take pot shots at the crossers? :roll:
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Postby Get Real! » Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:00 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
observer wrote:
Get Real! wrote:Overall, the underlying Turkish Cypriot agenda is one of PARTITION so any petty arguments pertaining to bringing the two communities together, such as the Ledra street gate/crossing, are moot.


Can you really think that the 75% who voted for voted for a BBF under the terms of the Annan Plan wanted Partition? Even you must admit that it's a strange way of trying for it.

During the three decades of Denktash, nobody in the TC community showed any interest in any liaison with the Greek Cypriots and it was predominantly the never-ending fluctuations of the Turkish Lira and scores of other problems that frustrated the TC community into seeking out an alternative solution with the “devil” on the other side of the fence.


When you say "nobody", is this hyperbole, or do you mean it literally? In the latter case, I suggest you do some research into a person named Ahmet Muzaffer Gurkan, who was murdered in 1962, and the circumstances behind his murder. Then perhaps you will understand why so few other people stepped out of line in those days.

I was unfortunate enough to have been one of the thousands of youngsters who served/guarded the infamous Green line during the notorious eighties when Turkish & Turkish Cypriot aggression to safeguard partition had reached its peak…

I forget not the hatred and ferocity with which they handled the rare event of two opposing soldiers (read kids) meeting up on the halfway line for something as innocent as a chat or exchange of cigarettes and magazines... a dear friend lost his life in one such occurrence.
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Postby GeorgeV97qaue » Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:02 pm

Denizaksulu they may not take pot shots but they can intimidate the crossers. Why do they have to be their?

If as Turkey say they want a solution why not show good faith and withdraw them from the area.
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Postby denizaksulu » Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:03 pm

GeorgeV97qaue wrote:Denizaksulu they may not take pot shots but they can intimidate the crossers. Why do they have to be their?

If as Turkey say they want a solution why not show good faith and withdraw them from the area.



The whole thing is stupid George. What is the point anyway. Its just intimidatory. No defensive purpose at all.
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Postby GeorgeV97qaue » Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:08 pm

No point at all mate. As you said intimidatory.

You never know one day we will be able to live side by side as we live in the UK. If a solution is ever found and the GC's can return to Varosha where my farther is from I will come back to my beloved Cyprus.

As it stands I find it too painful to return as I'm denied access to visit my family home.
Last edited by GeorgeV97qaue on Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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