Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

Overall, the underlying Turkish Cypriot agenda is one of PARTITION so any petty arguments pertaining to bringing the two communities together, such as the Ledra street gate/crossing, are moot.

[observer]

DT,
did you ever being northern part of the old Nicosia . Tell me where have you been seen the Turkish troops are patrolling in the streets. İ am asking you come with me and we can check it . You might tell ,that we asked them to hide than anytime any of you can pass easily from the leadra gate and walk in to the old Nicosia and tell us that troops are patrolling in the streets . we must not miss guide our people .we must tell the truth and they can force the politicians to solve this problem.

Halil, did i say the streets of nicosia? I said the street in the buffer zone under the bridge!

again DT,
just past the gate and come to lokmacı gate it easy to obser where is the soldiers are standing . how far away from the gate and where are they . if they can effect the civilians movement .
than compare GC's posts in Southern part of the Nicosia . İ am telling you no difference and no dangers for both side . They were only political tactics .

Halil, have seen the pictures in Phileleftheros of the troops passing fro under the bridge.

Anyway the latest proposal by the govt in Dec 2007 does not mention any of this. Why is the crossing not open yet?

This is the proposal:
- Opening the crossing point at Ledra street without any side proposing any terms or preconditions to UNFICYP.
- The two military sides to agree that UNFICYP will fully exercise the mandate, given to it by the Security Council, in the area of the buffer zone as this is marked in UNFICYP maps.
- The crossing point to open as soon as the practical arrangements are completed, which will have to meet all safety needs, as set out by UNFICYP, after consultations with the interested parties

What is wrong with your side?

Must be delay tactics?

I am with Halil on this one. No tactics. For a long time there was no wall on the TC side, just waiting for GC side to take down their wall. Ex-GC president started demanding conditions that apply at no other crossing.

Even when, with the world's media watching, he pulled down the wall, he immediately put up another temporary one. Now TCs have put up a similar one too.

As far as I know, there are no conditions on the TC side. Take down the GC temporary wall, the TC wall will be down in the time it takes to make a few phone calls.

I'm sorry but if you can't read the post before you then its not worth arguing. DId you read what i wrote about the latest proposals from the GC side in 2007? Can you find the conditions in that?

I've read it but can not remember any proposal, and having spent a little time on google, can find no reference to any GC proposal like this.

I'm genuinely interested. Can you direct me to who proposed it in December?

[observer]

Overall, the underlying Turkish Cypriot agenda is one of PARTITION so any petty arguments pertaining to bringing the two communities together, such as the Ledra street gate/crossing, are moot.

Can you really think that the 65% who voted for voted for a BBF under the terms of the Annan Plan wanted Partition? Even you must admit that it's a strange way of trying for it.

[Get Real!]

Overall, the underlying Turkish Cypriot agenda is one of PARTITION so any petty arguments pertaining to bringing the two communities together, such as the Ledra street gate/crossing, are moot.

Can you really think that the 75% who voted for voted for a BBF under the terms of the Annan Plan wanted Partition? Even you must admit that it's a strange way of trying for it.

During the three decades of Denktash, nobody in the TC community showed any interest in any liaison with the Greek Cypriots and it was predominantly the never-ending fluctuations of the Turkish Lira and scores of other problems that frustrated the TC community into seeking out an alternative solution with the “devil” on the other side of the fence.

[Kikapu]

Overall, the underlying Turkish Cypriot agenda is one of PARTITION so any petty arguments pertaining to bringing the two communities together, such as the Ledra street gate/crossing, are moot.

Can you really think that the 75% who voted for voted for a BBF under the terms of the Annan Plan wanted Partition? Even you must admit that it's a strange way of trying for it.

The 65% wanted a solution based on BBF with "Virgin Birth" concept on new states, which each more or less run their own affairs as they saw fit. If that was not a partition, then I don't know what partition is. Once in the EU, in time, either state could have declared Unilateral Declaration of Independence, and either state would have had limited recognition, just as Kosovo has done.

In order to have an honest BBF, "Virgin Birth" concept will need to come in the form of a True Federation & Democracy, otherwise the whole "Virgin Birth" concept is nothing more than second coming of crises in the future.

[bill cobbett]

In principle a good idea to open up and demilitarise a few streets around the present barriers. In practise however I fear that this would be the EU's leakiest border.

[observer]

Overall, the underlying Turkish Cypriot agenda is one of PARTITION so any petty arguments pertaining to bringing the two communities together, such as the Ledra street gate/crossing, are moot.

Can you really think that the 65% who voted for voted for a BBF under the terms of the Annan Plan wanted Partition? Even you must admit that it's a strange way of trying for it.

During the three decades of Denktash, nobody in the TC community showed any interest in any liaison with the Greek Cypriots and it was predominantly the never-ending fluctuations of the Turkish Lira and scores of other problems that frustrated the TC community into seeking out an alternative solution with the “devil” on the other side of the fence.

That may be one part of it for some people, as everyone has their own political thought process. But I think that a far bigger reason for the 75% is that a new generation of voters has grown up to whom EOKA and enosis are just old folks tales. It was noticeable during the marches for the Annan Plan on this side that so many of those saying 'vote yes' were people too young to remember the time before 74.

You can live in the past with Denktas, Papadopoulos and others if you want, but I believe most TCs want a solution. A BBF solution first. If not, then a final separation.

[umidis]

There is only one Mayor of Nicosia and it ain't that Baboon bulutoglu.

From where i am standing,you are the one sounding like a baboon..go read your constitution before making a monkey of yourself..

I guess you haven't read the constitution your undemocratic priveleges given to you by the British to create havoc, were all changed during the "democratization process" of 63.

[observer]

Overall, the underlying Turkish Cypriot agenda is one of PARTITION so any petty arguments pertaining to bringing the two communities together, such as the Ledra street gate/crossing, are moot.

Can you really think that the 75% who voted for voted for a BBF under the terms of the Annan Plan wanted Partition? Even you must admit that it's a strange way of trying for it.

The 65% wanted a solution based on BBF with "Virgin Birth" concept on new states, which each more or less run their own affairs as they saw fit. If that was not a partition, then I don't know what partition is. Once in the EU, in time, either state could have declared Unilateral Declaration of Independence, and either state would have had limited recognition, just as Kosovo has done.

In order to have an honest BBF, "Virgin Birth" concept will need to come in the form of a True Federation & Democracy, otherwise the whole "Virgin Birth" concept is nothing more than second coming of crises in the future.

There are now a little over 200 countries who are members of the United Nations. I don't know for sure, but I'm prepared to bet that every single one of them has a different constitution based on its own particular history. Cyprus' history seems to me to indicate that a loose federation is the best way to start. No community dominates, no community feels that the other is getting a bigger share of the cake. If it works, common interest will bring closer ties naturally. If it doesn't work then it is better to drift apart in agreement as Czechoslovakia has done.

[Piratis]

There is only one Mayor of Nicosia and it ain't that Baboon bulutoglu.

From where i am standing,you are the one sounding like a baboon..go read your constitution before making a monkey of yourself..

I guess you haven't read the constitution your undemocratic priveleges given to you by the British to create havoc, were all changed during the "democratization process" of 63.

1) Nothing was changed in 63 in the constitution.
2) Democracy is not somehting to be mocked about by placing it in quotes.

Umit, if you do not believe in things like democracy (the most important element of which is one person one vote), human rights and all the other universal principles, then you will never manage to be in our shoes and therefore you should consider your experiment as a failure already