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negotiations on the Cyprus Problem could start after April

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby BirKibrisli » Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:51 am

bill cobbett wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
Kifeas wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:The Annan Plan had two very important elements for the GCs...
Turkish troops would be largely withdrawn,plus all but 46,000 settlers would return to Turkey...Surely Christofias doesn't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.... :(


Turkish troop withdrawal -even a complete one, is meaningless if at the same time the so-called unilateral intervention "rights" are not abolished, as it is only a matter of an hour before Turkey lands as many troops as it wishes in Cyprus -more so in view of a completely dismantled National Guard in a demilitarized island! It is only a matter of Turkey finding /orchestrating a pre-text, to do so! The GC community cannot possibly live under a constant and eternal blackmailing environment, both by Turkey and the TC community! The TC community will have no incentive to co-operate, more so when it will be controlled to a large extent by the remaining settlers in Cyprus.

The 46,000 settlers were only adults! If one adds to each family, 3-4 children on the average, the number easily becomes 100,000 people. In a few years, when children would gain voting rights as well, they would have constituted 40% of the TC community's electorate! On this number, one has to add up an additional 5% on the size of the TC "community" (including the remaining settlers,) i.e. another 10-15,000 people of Turkish origin that would have been permitted to stay, and in 5 years would also have gain citizenship! The number is large, to the extent that we no longer may talk about a will of a TC community! Turkey could in practice influence these -to be naturalized- settlers, who can easily join forces with another 20-30% from the TC community itself that have strong pro-Turkish nationalist sentiments (UBP etc,) so that the entire TC "community" is a consolidated permanet captive of Turkey's political aims visa vie Cyprus. The end result, in a political equality partnership with this type of TC "community," will look and taste for the GCs more like a one way partnership with Turkey itself, in ruling the whole of Cyprus through the central government! Cyprus will no longer be regarded as a politically independed country, but only a proxy to Turkey's international political (and not only) choices! The whole of Cyprus, through the central (federal) government, will more or less acquire the status that the “TRNC” currently has in the north, i.e. a subservient entity to Turkey’s political and geo-strategic aims and ambitions, and no matter whether it is or will be an EU member state or not! We may no longer talk about an independent and sovereign country, in any sense!

Had Turkey been a normal modern country, characterized by its sound political, democratic and social culture; and a country that respects international legality, human and civil rights; perhaps our concerns may have been somewhat lessened, even though it would still have remained to be a matter of principle! Unfortunately, not even this aspect can be satisfied, since Turkey is not able to safeguard its own people’s civil, cultural and human rights, set aside to respect or safeguard those of another country and another people! I say this not becasue I want to discredit Turkey and its people, but because it is a fact of life


Well,dear Kifeas,it all comes down to TRUST in the end...
GCs do not trust Turkey and point to the events of 1974 to justify their fears and suspicions...The TCs do not trust the GCs,and point to the events between 1963 and 74 to justify theirs...How on earth are we going to find a solution which will leave most Cypriots with a sense of justice and security???? No one is prepared to give an inch...No one is trying to foster trust and understanding...Everyone is in their bunkers busy with fortifications...How on earth are we going to get out of this hole we find ourselves???? :( :( :(


Gosh and what a hole it is and one we're going to be in for at least the next couple of generations if we think it's something that will be "solved" with one grand treaty, agreement or solution. Rather I feel that step by step but substantive exchanges ( for want of a better phrase ) are the way forward. I don't mean the "confidence building measures" nonsense of a while ago.

I am sure others will think of other items that could form a real and as I say, substantive first step where both communities win. WIN/WIN got it? (that would be a first for Cyprus).

For instance, one of our communities wants an end to embargos and direct flights, the other community may want a return of Varosi. Neither of these, imho, will cost the other community much if anything and both would be of benefit to the whole C. economy.

These and other relatively small steps make the progress towards a grand solution a little easier. Don't get me wrong I know that at some time we will have to confront the more difficult problems
but we'll be tackling these from a much more confident base.

Softly, softly killy monkey and remember "win/win".


Very well said,bill...I agree entirely...There is a saying in Turkish; "Why are you in the vineyard? To eat grapes?or to beat up the vineyard keeper??? Both sides have to sit down and decide their own motivations as to why they are in this Vineyard called Cyprus???? :)
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Postby Big Al » Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:54 am

I was speaking to my wifes grandfather yesterday during a barbeque and i asked him what he thought about the newly elected president of Greek Cyprus and the whether he thought there was a possibility of negotiation now that papadopoulos was gone..... his response.....and i think my of us TC'a will agree......ali, biri beyaz kopek obiri kara kopek, ferki ne? kopek kopek dir. I couldnt have put it better myself, anyone thinking that this new guy will bring anything more than the status quo is dellusional.
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Postby Kifeas » Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:27 am

Big Al wrote:I was speaking to my wifes grandfather yesterday during a barbeque and i asked him what he thought about the newly elected president of Greek Cyprus and the whether he thought there was a possibility of negotiation now that papadopoulos was gone..... his response.....and i think my of us TC'a will agree......ali, biri beyaz kopek obiri kara kopek, ferki ne? kopek kopek dir. I couldnt have put it better myself, anyone thinking that this new guy will bring anything more than the status quo is dellusional.


gauf ...gauf ...gauf!!! Yes Ali, we are all dogs, black and white!!! gauf ...gauf ...gauf!!!
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Postby Viewpoint » Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:26 am

Big Al wrote:I was speaking to my wifes grandfather yesterday during a barbeque and i asked him what he thought about the newly elected president of Greek Cyprus and the whether he thought there was a possibility of negotiation now that papadopoulos was gone..... his response.....and i think my of us TC'a will agree......ali, biri beyaz kopek obiri kara kopek, ferki ne? kopek kopek dir. I couldnt have put it better myself, anyone thinking that this new guy will bring anything more than the status quo is dellusional.



Big Al, they have elected a new leaders I think it only right to give the guy a chance, see what he comes up with. Will he see beyond the barriers papadop put in place and try to take a step forward or will he play safe and try to keep his seat/power.
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Postby BirKibrisli » Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:27 am

Big Al wrote:I was speaking to my wifes grandfather yesterday during a barbeque and i asked him what he thought about the newly elected president of Greek Cyprus and the whether he thought there was a possibility of negotiation now that papadopoulos was gone..... his response.....and i think my of us TC'a will agree......ali, biri beyaz kopek obiri kara kopek, ferki ne? kopek kopek dir. I couldnt have put it better myself, anyone thinking that this new guy will bring anything more than the status quo is dellusional.


That was totally uncalled for and unacceptable,Mr Big...
How would you like to be called "shilloturco" ??? or whatever it is...

How can you be so callously racist???
People like you make me want to vomit... :evil:
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Postby Viewpoint » Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:37 am

BirKibrisli wrote:
Big Al wrote:I was speaking to my wifes grandfather yesterday during a barbeque and i asked him what he thought about the newly elected president of Greek Cyprus and the whether he thought there was a possibility of negotiation now that papadopoulos was gone..... his response.....and i think my of us TC'a will agree......ali, biri beyaz kopek obiri kara kopek, ferki ne? kopek kopek dir. I couldnt have put it better myself, anyone thinking that this new guy will bring anything more than the status quo is dellusional.


That was totally uncalled for and unacceptable,Mr Big...
How would you like to be called "shilloturco" ??? or whatever it is...

How can you be so callously racist???
People like you make me want to vomit... :evil:


Unfortunately Bir many people still think that way on both sides of the divide, the older generation keep telling us dont trust these people they will stab you in the back the first opportunity if only you knew how we suffered at their hands they will never change.
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Postby BirKibrisli » Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:21 am

Viewpoint wrote:
Big Al wrote:I was speaking to my wifes grandfather yesterday during a barbeque and i asked him what he thought about the newly elected president of Greek Cyprus and the whether he thought there was a possibility of negotiation now that papadopoulos was gone..... his response.....and i think my of us TC'a will agree......ali, biri beyaz kopek obiri kara kopek, ferki ne? kopek kopek dir. I couldnt have put it better myself, anyone thinking that this new guy will bring anything more than the status quo is dellusional.



Big Al, they have elected a new leaders I think it only right to give the guy a chance, see what he comes up with. Will he see beyond the barriers papadop put in place and try to take a step forward or will he play safe and try to keep his seat/power.


I expected you to say something about his overt racism,VP...
If we don't stand up to these people they will destroy our chances of a peaceful and dignified future...You as an "elder" have a role to play...Please take it seriously...
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Postby BirKibrisli » Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:32 am

Viewpoint wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
Big Al wrote:I was speaking to my wifes grandfather yesterday during a barbeque and i asked him what he thought about the newly elected president of Greek Cyprus and the whether he thought there was a possibility of negotiation now that papadopoulos was gone..... his response.....and i think my of us TC'a will agree......ali, biri beyaz kopek obiri kara kopek, ferki ne? kopek kopek dir. I couldnt have put it better myself, anyone thinking that this new guy will bring anything more than the status quo is dellusional.


That was totally uncalled for and unacceptable,Mr Big...
How would you like to be called "shilloturco" ??? or whatever it is...

How can you be so callously racist???
People like you make me want to vomit... :evil:


Unfortunately Bir many people still think that way on both sides of the divide, the older generation keep telling us dont trust these people they will stab you in the back the first opportunity if only you knew how we suffered at their hands they will never change.


Well...People like Big Al ought to know better. If they don't we have to tell them to pull their heads in...Empathy and compassion are called for now...Not prejudice and bigotry... :evil:
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Postby miltiades » Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:53 am

It exists amongst our less educated people unfortunately , mostly illiterate folk full of old wives tales . I see it amongst the G/C ignoramus and as BigAl has confirmed also amongst the T/C ignoramus , it is our duty to educate these people , to show them that both the G/Cs and T/Cs are on balance highly responsible and fair minded people. The fanatics will use the illiterates to their own purpose.
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Postby Kifeas » Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:25 am

Do not worry people, I personally took it as a joke from an imbecile! :lol:
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