zan wrote:Kikapu wrote:Nikitas wrote:So far no one has analysed this notion of politically equal communities. Neither has anyone offered any examples of similar federal systems where there is such equality of states or communities. Assuming words are given their obvious meaning then equal means that 150 000 Tcs are equal to 650 000 GCs and nothing moves unless there is agreement by both sides. Sounds like another recipe for deadlock which will lead to the inevitable conclusion that we cannot live together and partition is the only solution. Which then will leave the GCs without the RoC.
Perhaps those in the forum who have studied federal structures can enlighten us on the application of this equality thing in real life situation. The one federal state I know fairly well is the USA and while both California and Wyoming are equal, with two senators each in the senate, in the House of Representatives they have members according to their population, California has 80 million, Wyoming half a million. Wyoming cannot block any process in the US by asserting equality. Neither can Wyoming or any other state pull out of the union unilaterally.
In Cyprus of course we will not follow the American model, it is not good enough for us. So what are we talking about?
Nikitas,
Actually, we have 30 million residents in California, and that's plenty enough, since we also have few million illegal Immigrants also, which they call California home, since it once belonged to Mexico.!!!
Here is why the True Federation works well in the States. In California, despite being the most populous state in the Union, we only have 2 senators in the senate, same as Wyoming, as you correctly pointed out, despite Wyoming have about 1/60th population of California, therefore, all 50 States get equal senate representation. Where the population count, is in the House of Representatives. California has 53 representatives from 58 Counties . Each representative represents people of certain area in California in the congress. Some are Democrats and some are Republicans, as well as Independents. Some areas are more Republican and Democrat than other areas, but it is not unusual, in fact it is all too common to elect a Republican in a mostly Democratic areas and the same for electing a Democrat in a mostly Republican areas. California in general have more Democrats than Republicans, but we have elected just as many Republican Governors as Democratic Governors. Therefore, people cross part lines all the time. We try to elect the best person for the job.
So, to try and apply this system in Cyprus will not be difficult. This is why it would be beneficial for all Cypriots if we were to disband all political Parties, and form 3 main new ones, like Democrats, Republicans and Independents. This way, all Cypriots can vote based on philosophy and ideology and not because one is a GC and the other is a TC. But to get back to the representatives of a Federal System, if most of the TC's remained in the North and about 100,000 GC's also moved to the North, if not all 200,000, the North will be able to have around 40% of all the representatives in the North. Each representative will then vote on issues that effects the constituents he or she represents in the are they are from. These are elected individuals and are up for election once every 2 years, so if they are not performing, then they will get voted out. The President can veto any legislation, but can be overridden by 60% vote in the house and the senate. Since the senate will have equal representation from each states, the North and the South, and if the vote is 50-50 in the senate, then the vice president can cast a vote to break the deadlock. A simple majority is needed in presenting a legislation to be sent to the president to sign.
Most common complaints I hear about the True Federation reactionist or perhaps "rejectionists" is a better term, that the TC's are afraid that the GC's will vote as a block to pass laws against the interest of the TC's, because the TC's lack the numbers in population. Why would a representative in congress vote for a legislation that will be bad for the area he represents, since both GC's and TC's will be living in the same area. This is nothing but a "red herring" to avoid having a True Federation and a True Democracy. If lets say a legislation is produced by a Racist representative that will not be in the best interest of the TC's in General, what makes the "rejectionists" think, that other representatives, the senators, and the President will support such a legislation. And even if they did, a 1 in a million chance, then we will have the Supreme court which will examine the legality of such legislation to see if it would violate the rules of the constitution on Human Rights, civil rights and individual rights, plus many other rights. What these "rejectionists" are saying is, the blacks in the States are only 10% of the population, which means the majority being whites, they can put a legislation forward that can make slavery once again legal. Sorry, even if the whole country voted for such laws, the supreme court will strike it down as being unconstitutional.
We want True Federation and True Democracy for Cyprus. Those who do not want the above, can move to any on of the Middle Eastern countries, and see how they would like to live under a non True Democratic Laws.
Who was it that voted to go into Iraq and who is it that is protesting this move then Kiks?????
Zan,
Do you have point to make, or you are just bored and do not know what to say.???
What is your question exactly.??
The more clear you are, the clearer the answer you will get in return.!!!
