Cyprus-Forum.com

[umit07]

Kikapu I did answer you just right above your post in case you haven't noticed.

[Kikapu]

Kikapu I did NOT mean to say that the "TRNC" should be recognised and the GC's should help us in that department. What I am stating is that removal of economic isolation, will make TC's prosper to the same level as GC's thus changing our relations with Turkey. I believe that "democracy and money" are proportional to an extent. A country without a big economically sustainable working class cannot be fully democratic. So what I am asking for is that TC's be given a chance to prosper, thats all. I am not asking that a ship with a TRNC flag be able to dock in Europe, but a ship with for example a Turkish flag should be able to move directly between famagusta and any other port in the world without any trouble.

Umit07,

I appreciate your answer, but you have not answered my question. Lets forget the recognition for a minute. You have stated, and I quote "In my opinion the key is economics, the point when TC's can sustain their own developement is when we are gonna be free. I think GC's economic ambargoes against TC's is like "shooting yourself in the leg" . The more the economic preasure the more TC's will cling to Mama Turkey it is that simple".

Therefore Umit07, your contention is, had the isolation were not imposed on the TC's by the International Community supported by the RoC, and the TC's were able to stand on their own economically, Turkey would have been told by the TC's to do what exactly........leave us alone and go back home, because we don't need you anymore and that we want to be part of Cyprus and build a future with the GC's, or would it have been more or less what I have said to be the case of "Hahahahahahahahahahaha..... See you in the next life suckers..... Hahahahahahahahahahaha"!!!

So Unit07, had the TC's never had economic isolation, was it going to be for the case of, "yes, we want to be in one country with the GC's" or was it going to be, "see you in the next life, suckers".?? These are your choices as I see them, to the statement you have made above.

[Jerry]

Kikapu I did NOT mean to say that the "TRNC" should be recognised and the GC's should help us in that department. What I am stating is that removal of economic isolation, will make TC's prosper to the same level as GC's thus changing our relations with Turkey. I believe that "democracy and money" are proportional to an extent. A country without a big economically sustainable working class cannot be fully democratic. So what I am asking for is that TC's be given a chance to prosper, thats all. I am not asking that a ship with a TRNC flag be able to dock in Europe, but a ship with for example a Turkish flag should be able to move directly between famagusta and any other port in the world without any trouble.

Umit, a few weeks ago someone (who appeared to have good knowledge of his facts) posted on this site that the use of Famagusta port to send goods to Turkey was limited because of the high shipping cost. Apparently there is a monopoly or cartel operating from the port that makes exporting very expensive; it's called shooting yourself in the foot.

[umit07]

No kikapu I am not implying that TC's would have told Turkey to take her army and sodd off. What I am saying is that the "Turkish Cypriot state" whatever the name would be more immune to Turkey. We would be a lot more independant from them. At the moment I believe we are on the path of becoming a province of Turkey. WHen that happens GC's will be f***ed . THey can forget about anything happening.

After spending time on this forum I believe the chances of a soln are just about the same as me getting laid with Adriana Lima .

[Nikitas]

"At the moment I believe we are on the path of becoming a province of Turkey. WHen that happens GC's will be f***ed . THey can forget about anything happening. "

How much more like a province of Turkey can the TRNC get? It already has 40 000 troops, the military commander calls the shots, controls all security and police forces and the currency is the Turkish Lira. You mean that there will be a formal annexation? And how will that change anything from what it is now?

[humanist]

The Turkish Cypriot administration cannot be trusted by the GC government and not should it be. The Turkisg Cypriot focus i for partition and therefore cannot be trusted by the Cyprus government tat the rightts of its refugess will be upheld and respected by our so called Turkish speaking Cypriot brothers and sisters.

No one single action taken by Talat indicates willingness to action leading to unification. Firstly lifiting odf isolation has nothing to do with unification, (the only action in that respect that will show Cypriots that the Turkish Cypriot side is up for unification is a joint venture between the two communitites, if you can't trust the GC's then accept the isolatins).

Further action that implies unification is not on the cards by TC so called brothers/ sisters is the attempts to open trncc representative offices around the world, they spell trnc not Cyprus representative offices. Action that cannot be trusted by Cypriot government that has 200,000 or so refugeess whose rights ought to be protected by the Ro and the international arena.

Lastly and very simply, lighting of a flag each night saying to the Cypriot fuck off we got your land and are giving it Turkey on a silver platter is not an action thta leads to unification.

Actions that lead to unification are as follows, granting all citizens the right to access their whole country, which is the cae with the RoC and its TC citizens, allowing though passports and ID cards those citizens to access EU benefits (which I still haven't figured what they are). Action that leads to unification says live in the property and you will recaim it after three months, not go to a commision to decide thta firstly you own it and secondly you might get it back.

And for general discussion for the intelligance in this forum, the TC and GC wh recently succeeded in land exchange, could that be the solution to unified Cypus if there were TC and GC who wanted to excange property the other way around for example myself exchangeing land in the south for north with a TC. Did the court set preceednt that allowing exchange one way would be deemed discriminatory? I'd love to own some land in Rizokarpaso. Would make a great retirement spot.

[umit07]

Well Nikaitas if you are implying that things can't get worse they really can. If I was to look at the situation from your perspective the following have or will will occur;

1. The influx of settlers will continue, at the moment laws have been changed to make it harder for one to become a citizen there is a 10 year cont. stay period for people working with working permits bfore they can apply. Whats gonna happen when all these people live here for over 10 years? They might stay for 10-15-20 years but in the end they will get citizenship. In a case of any referandum on the Cyprus issue these people will vote whether you like it or not! So any plan to sent all of them back will NEVER get through. BTW at the moment the number of settlers with citizenship ( including offspring born here ) is around 65,000 out of 185,000 citizens.

2. At the moment TC's are quite pissed at the EU for not going foward on their word. At a time before the referandum the EU was seen as respectable instition. Trust towards the EU is gtting lower and lower.

3. With the term "reunification" TC's mean to say the Island geographically. NOT the "reunification" with the RoC. This is something some GC's don't get or don't want to get. In the end there will be so many settlers from shitty places like Hatay, Diyarbakır and Urfa that ( which are mostly Kurds and Arabs ) that a soln. will be imposible.

[Nikitas]

Umit07,

The plans hatched now foresee "humane" treatment for the settlers anyway. Which means that the problem created by Turkey, and shoved onto TCs will be passed to GCs in a "unified" Cyprus and we will have to extend welfare benefits etc to these Arabs and Kurds from Diyarbakir or wherever. In addition we wil have to give up the RoC, our only survival tool which allowed the GC community to survive the aftermath of the invasion and enabled them to enter the EU.

With a prospect like that the Cyprus problem looks like heaven!

There is always the possibility of compensating the settlers and they can go back to their native villages with pockets full, paid for by the GCs yet again, so that the TCs can finally be free, assuming they want to be.

As for the worst case scenario you paint above, of the north becoming a province of Turkey, well there is always the antidote of turning the south into a province of Greece, and that is Turkey's worse nightmare. But if they keep pushing for it they will get it because they leave no other options open.

[Jerry]

I have never understood why it is unfair and inhumane to send settlers back to Turkey. They came to the island voluntarily, apparently, to help themselves to GC property. And yet, according to Turkey it is fair and humane to deny the 180,000 dispossessed inhabitants the right to return to their homes. If we dont get a solution soon I think we should sue the arse off Turkey. Interesting related article in Cyprus Weekly:-
http://www.cyprusweekly.com.cy/default. ... wsID=304_4

[halil]

USA NOT TO TAKE ANY INITIATIVE ON CYPRUS ISSUE, CASEYThe US
State Department has announced that Washington has no plans to launch a new initiative on the Cyprus Problem at this point in time.

The announcement was made by the US State Department Spokesman Tom Casey during his daily press briefing.
Responding to a question as to whether the US will be taking on a new initiative on Cyprus, the US State Department Spokesman Tom Casey said that Washington’s current role was to support the UN sponsored process.

Expressing Washington’s view that that a political settlement in Cyprus is important, Tom Casey said that Washington believed it was important that both Turkish and Greek Cypriot leaders have expressed an interest in speaking to one another and engaging in dialogue on this issue.
Hopefully, we will get to the point where it leads to a final resolution," Casey added.

GREEK FM BAKOYANNI -JULY 8TH AGREEMENT CAN LEAD CYPRUS ISSUE TO A NEW SOLUTION
The Greek Foreign Minister Dora Bakoyannis has said that the period could be "an important opportunity window" in regard to the Cyprus issue.
She said the July 8th Agreement could lead the Cyprus issue to a new solution phase.

The Greek Foreign Minister, who is paying a visit to the Turkish capital of Ankara, was speaking a joint news conference with her Turkish counterpart Ali Babacan following a meeting which focused mainly on the Cyprus Issue.
Speaking to reporters, Bakoyanni expressed the view that the July 8th Agreement can lead to a new process.

For his part, Babacan said that the Cyprus issue was an important issue for Turkey.

"We consider that an important opportunity window has been opened for 2008," Babacan said.