Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz]

Erol,

The difference is that the TC's want to restrict freedom of movement in order to maintain an ETHNIC division in Cyprus. In my opinion, political equality of the two communities does not mean that we should compromise the human rights of individuals to live anywhere they wish in their own country. Until this basic fundamental point is accepted by TC's then we will get knowhere. That is the compromise the TC's have to make for a solution to be mutually acceptable.

Freedom of movment is not a problem for me or TC in general. Even freedom to live in any part of Cyprus is not a problem. It becomes a problem when you inist on freedom to lice anywhere in Cyprus AND to be politicaly represented at the component state level where you live. The problem for TC then becomes that you may well end up with a federal Cyprus where both component states have a numerical GC majority - which is defeats the whole poit of a federal solution in the first place.

You can ensure that TC remain a majority in a TC component state by either restricting how many GC can live in the TCCS or by having no restrictions but not allow them to be represented politicaly in the TCCS but in the GCCS regardless of the fact they live in the TCCS.

For me personaly even bizonality is not as important as bi communality (and some equality of communites). For me we can live anywhere we like and as mixed as we like with no restrictions, but the TC community must have political representation as a community and that is accepted to be equal to that of the GC community.

[Kifeas]

You can ensure that TC remain a majority in a TC component state by either restricting how many GC can live in the TCCS or by having no restrictions but not allow them to be represented politicaly in the TCCS but in the GCCS regardless of the fact they live in the TCCS.

If I interpret correctly your above paragraph, you are saying that if we a guarantee a majority of let’s say 2/3 or ¾ of Turkish Cypriots as a minimum proportion of the TCCS population, you are then ready to accept that political equality in the Fed government should be based on the level of the two constituent states (internal constituent state citizenship) instead of being based on the level of the two communities (“ethnicity,”) like it was prescribed in the Annan plan 5.

[erolz]

If I interpret correctly your above paragraph, you are saying that if we a guarantee a majority of let’s say 2/3 or ¾ of Turkish Cypriots as a minimum proportion of the TCCS population, you are then ready to accept that political equality in the Fed government should be based on the level of the two constituent states (internal constituent state citizenship) instead of being based on the level of the two communities (“ethnicity,”) like it was prescribed in the Annan plan 5.

I am not sure what you mean by "political equality in the Fed government should be based on the level of the two constituent states" ?

If there is mechansim that protects the TCCS from becoming numericaly dominated by GC and that at the federal level the TCCS and the GCCS state are equal in rights and status then yes I am happy. If this is protected I have no wish or need to limit any Cypriots ability to live travel or work anywhere in Cyprus.

[turkcyp]

For me personaly even bizonality is not as important as bi communality (and some equality of communites). For me we can live anywhere we like and as mixed as we like with no restrictions, but the TC community must have political representation as a community and that is accepted to be equal to that of the GC community.

I have been saying the same thing over and over for the last 6 months that I have been a member, but it seems quite obvious after 6 months that GCs are not willing to see where our priorities lies.

Withot the communal equality there will never be a solution which is accepted to TCs, be it unitary, federal, confederal. If GCs are not willing to give this to us, then let's wither stop talking at all, and keep everyything the way it is, till any of us change their mind, or let's start talking partition. If GC leaders are not willing to accept communal equality, and if GC society backs those leaders, then we will be in this status quo for a long time....

[Kifeas]

If there is mechansim that protects the TCCS from becoming numericaly dominated by GC and that at the federal level the TCCS and the GCCS state are equal in rights and status then yes I am happy. If this is protected I have no wish or need to limit any Cypriots ability to live travel or work anywhere in Cyprus..

Annan plan provided some quite strong mechanisms but should they not be sufficient then additional guarantees can be provided so that the Greek Cypriots that become TCCS internal citizenship holders are at any given time no more than ¼ or 2/3 of the total TCCS population. The rest (2/3 or ¾ majority) will be Turkish Cypriots.

Would this be satisfactory to you?

[erolz]

Would this be satisfactory to you?

yes

[-mikkie2-]

Erol,

You can still maintain political equality AND give political rights to GC's that choose to be permanent residents in the north. The principle is wheighted voting in each state.

I have argued with Insan over this many times before, and we kind of agreed that irrespective of the number of GC's living in the north, a cap of 30% on the seats in the northern state could be taken up by GC's which would mean that they alone could not dominate politics in the north and respectively the TC's in the south - a decision is accepted only if majority of TC's accept, even if all GC's decline. This would have the added benefit that it can give rise to political parties of mixed ethnicity which is sorely needed in Cyprus. Once this kind of cooperation is established, in 20 or 30 years time we will have a situation where GC and TC can campaign around common platforms.

[brother]

Amen to that mikkie.

[Realist]

EOKA = liberation from Britain
EOKA B = Extreme Enosis movement using the same name to inspire a trust for a different cause. Backed by th US like the Greek Junta. The majority of GC did not want ENOSIS that is why there was no support as you stated.

To add, the EU is not a country, Cyprus is. There is no country that functions in the way you propose not even Switzerland. The reason for this is that it doesn't work, people don't generally like living under a system that's unjust.

I can see a lot of TC have fears about what would happen if the island we're reunited, but i don't think you can address these by proposing a biased solution.

As I've said in the past once the EU becomes a single state then i would totally back proportianate representation, even if this means Cyprus gets just one MEP because that is the fair thing to do. Afterall, if you back equal weight disregarding proportional then all countries with minorities including Turkey (in the instance of Kurds), have unjust regimes as minorities across the world have a proportionate vote.

Again, I ask would you honestly say that you would have been willing to give the GC the same equality regardless of population difference if it was the otherway round?

[Kifeas]

*Would this be satisfactory to you?

**yes

Erolz, that’s fine with me too!
Do you also accept that this small percentage of GCs withholding the internal citizenship of the TCCS should and will have equal political rights with the rest of the TC population of the TCCS?