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Murdered - or executed as traitors?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby metecyp » Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:46 pm

Main Source wrote:They were never going to move from Cyprus and had previously said in the past that they would NEVER grant Cyprus her freedom.

But you weren't after your freedom, you were after making Cyprus part of Greece. That's what Enosis is, that's why EOKA existed..to make Cyprus part of Greece. If it was an innocent liberation movement for Cyprus and for all Cypriots, TCs would be on your side. But your community chose to ignore a significant percentage of Cypriot people and go with the majority's desires.

Let's say we accept that EOKA struggle was just for liberation and removal of the British...British left in 1960 and the RoC was formed but that wasn't enough for many EOKA supporters. They (including Makarios) regarded the RoC a stepping stone for Enosis. So this shows that EOKA was not just a struggle for liberation but a struggle to make Cyprus part of Greece.
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Postby Main_Source » Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:28 pm

Makarios was against Enosis after Cyprus' independance, thats why EOKA B came after him to kill him. We have said this a million times...but you pettyness of always wanting a GC leader to be a bad guy wont allow you to take it in.
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Postby cannedmoose » Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:34 pm

Main_Source wrote:Makarios was against Enosis after Cyprus' independance, thats why EOKA B came after him to kill him. We have said this a million times...but you pettyness of always wanting a GC leader to be a bad guy wont allow you to take it in.


Makarios turned against enosis for reasons of political expediency as well as to solidify his own position in control. Once he'd secured power, he had no intention of handing it over to Greece. National hero or not, he was a shrewd and cunning political operator who manipulated the masses to his own ends, using his position as a spiritual leader to force others into line.
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Postby insan » Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:36 pm

Main_Source wrote:Makarios was against Enosis after Cyprus' independance, thats why EOKA B came after him to kill him. We have said this a million times...but you pettyness of always wanting a GC leader to be a bad guy wont allow you to take it in.



Makarios was obliged to abandon Enosis idea in 1967. It seems all your history books skipped and distorted the facts in order to create the blind nationalists like you who adore EOKA.
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Postby erolz » Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:18 pm

Main_Source wrote:Makarios was against Enosis after Cyprus' independance, thats why EOKA B came after him to kill him. We have said this a million times...but you pettyness of always wanting a GC leader to be a bad guy wont allow you to take it in.


You really need to look at what Makarios himself said. Here are some examples to help you on your way.

The epic grandeur and glory of EOKA’s liberation struggle has laid the foundation-stone of national freedom. This freedom it is our sacred duty to safeguard and complete. National struggles never come to an end. They merely change their form, preserving deep down the same substance and the same content. . . The realisation of our hopes and aspirations is not complete under the Zurich and London Agreements. The glorious liberation struggle, whose fifth anniversary we celebrate today, has secured us advanced bastions and impregnable strongholds for our independence. From these bastions we will continue the struggle to complete victory. There is nothing impossible for man when he works for something and believes in it. Let us therefore work with faith for the future of our country and let us be certain that the task we began five years ago will soon be completed and bear fruit.

Archbishop Makarios, speaking on the fifth anniversary of the start of the EOKA campaign on 1.4.1960


The Agreements do not form the goal, they are the present and not the future. The Greek Cypriot people will continue their national cause and shape their future in accordance with their will. The Zurich and London Agreements have a number of positive elements but also negative ones, and the Greeks will work to take advantage of the positive elements and get rid of the negative ones.

Archbishop Makarios, in a statement reported in the Greek Cypriot press 28.07.1960


Independence was not the aim and purpose of the EOKA struggle . . .
Foreign factors have prevented the achievement of the national goal, but this
should not be a cause for sorrow... New bastions have been conquered and
from these bastions the Greek Cypriots will march on to complete the final
victory.

Archbishop Makarios, on the day when the Republic was inaugurated
16.08.1960


The noble struggles of the people never come to an end. These struggles, although they undergo transformation, are never terminated. The struggle of the people of Cyprus too will go on.

The Zurich and London Agreements form a landmark in the course of this struggle, but at the same time, are a starting point and bastion for further struggles, with the object of capitalising on what has been achieved for further conquests.

Archbishop Makarios, in a public statement in Nicosia 05.01.1962


Greek Cypriots must continue to march forward to complete the work begun by the EOKA heroes . . . The struggle is continuing in a new form, and will go on until we achieve our goal. . .

Archbishop Makarios, in a sermon at Kykko Monastery 15.08.1962


Until this small Turkish community forming part of the Turkish race which has been the terrible enemy of Hellenism is expelled, the duty of the hereos of EOKA can never be considered as terminated.

Archbishop Makarios, speaking at his home village, Panayia 04.09.1962


The aim of the Cyprus struggle was not establishment of a Republic. These Agreements only laid the foundation.

Archbishop Makarios, in a public statement in Nicosia 12.03.1963


No Greek who knows me can ever believe that I would wish to work for the creation of a Cypriot national awareness. The Agreements have created a State, but not a Nation.

Archbishop Makarios, in a statement to the Cyprus Mail 28.3.1963


The Union of Cyprus with Greece is an aspiration always cherished within the hearts of all Greek Cypriots. It is impossible to put an end to this aspiration by establishing a Republic.

Archbishop Makarios, in a statement to The Times 09.04.1963


It is true that the goal of our struggle is to annex Cyprus to Greece.

Archbishop Makarios, in an interview in Uusi Suomi of Stockholm 05.09.1963


What is our desire? We have proclaimed it many times: our union with the Motherland, eternal Greece. What will our reply be if such a solution is made difficult, and if some think compromises are required or that something be given in return? ‘No’ is the reply, and the struggle will continue until complete fulfilment.

Archbishop Makarios, in a sermon at Paralimni 03.11.1963


Greece has come to Cyprus, and Cyprus is Greece. I firmly believe that the PanHellenic struggle for the union of Cyprus with the motherland Greece will shortly be crowned with success. This success will be the beginning of a
new era of Greek grandeur and glory.

Archbishop Makarios, on the occasion of a visit to Cyprus by the Greek Minister of Defence
27.10.1964


I agree absolutely that, in the case of an unprovoked attack by Turkey against Cyprus, when Greece, as you have repeatedly declared will come to the aid of Cyprus with all its resources, the struggle will be conducted in the name of Enosis, which will be immediately proclaimed by the two Parliaments, the Greek and the Cypriot. Because, as you mention in your letter, the Greek Army cannot fight under the banner of ‘the unfettered independence’ of Cyprus, which must be the demand in the forum of the United Nations, but is absolutely unsuitable as the flag of the Nation at war. I would wish, while on the point, to add that, even if Cypriot Hellenism were to face the unlikely event of struggling without the aid of Greece, the aim of the struggle would be Enosis and not its unfettered independence. Enosis was what we had as our sole watchword in all our struggles. Enosis was what we had as our aim when, under the pressure of facts and in order not to encompass the Motherland in risky ventures, we were compelled to accept, with the insistent advice of the Greek Government, temporary solutions.

Archbishop Makarios in a letter to the Greek Prime Minister, George Papandreou 21.01.1965


No power is able to close the Cyprus Question. We shall keep it open and will never close it under any circumstances or conditions . . . until we close it through our union with Greece, a genuine Enosis without bartering . . .

Archbishop Makarios, in a public speech at Larnaca 19.05.1965


Either the whole of Cyprus is to be united with Greece or become a holocaust. .. The road to the fulfilment of national aspirations may be full of difficulties, but we shall reach the goal - which is Enosis - alive or dead ...

Archbishop Makarios, in a public speech at Nicosia 26.05.1965


The Cyprus leadership is doing its utmost in order to shorten the way to Enosis. We shall overcome the difficulties and impediments with patience, perseverance, courage and determination, and we shall reach the desired goal. In 1950 as the head of the Office of Ethnarch, the honour of organising the Enosis Plebiscite was bestowed upon me. Today as the responsible leader of the Cyprus people I consider that plebiscite as my own will. With the help of God, I believe, I shall fulfil this will completely.

Archbishop Makarios, in a statement in Athens on the anniversary of the Enosis Plebiscite of 1950 01.02.1966


The demand for Enosis is based on the democratic principle of self-determination. . .. Enosis is the right of the people.

Archbishop Makarios, in a statement to ITN, London 15.06.1966


The real victory will be achieved when Cyprus will be annexed to Greece without any concessions whatsoever... I am for Enosis, but it must be genuine Enosis without curbs or strings.

Archbishop Makarios, in the Greek Cypriot newspaper Ethniki 01.10.1967


... I shall never violate my oath, and I shall never deviate from my goal. I have desired Enosis, and I have never struggled for anything else other than its achievement.

Archbishop Makarios, in an interview given to the Greek newspapers Eleftheros Kosmos and Ta Simerina in Athens 19.08.1970


Cyprus is Greek. Cyprus was Greek since the dawn of history, and will
remain Greek. Greek and undivided we have taken it over. Greek and
undivided we shall preserve it. Greek and undivided we shall deliver it to
Greece.

Archbishop Makarios, in a speech at Yialousa village 14.03.1971


I am in favour of Enosis. Enosis is the national aspiration of Greek Cypriots.

Archbishop Makarios, in an interview with ITN London 21.09.1971


If your aim is the launching of a struggle for Enosis, both I and the people of
Cyprus are ready to enter such a struggle provided it is backed by the Greek
Government.

Archbishop Makarios, replying to a Greek Government note of 11.2.1972
16.03.1972


Those who disagree with the way of handling Cyprus’s national problem and call themselves Enosists accuse and call the others, the overwhelming majority of the Greek Cypriot people, anti-Enosists. The charge is false and inadmissible. All Greek Cypriots are and will be Enosists.

Archbishop Makarios, in a speech at the unveiling of a statue of an EOKA fighter at Akaki village 05.11.1972


I have struggled for the union of Cyprus with Greece, and Enosis will always be my deep national aspiration as it is the aspiration of all Greek Cypriots. My national creed has never changed and my career as a national leader has shown no inconsistency or contradiction. I have accepted independence instead of Enosis because certain external conditions and factors have not allowed a free choice.

. . . If I had any ambitions, my greatest ambition would be for my name to be associated with Enosis.

Archbishop Makarios, in an interview given to the French magazine
‘Le Point’. 19.02.1973


I would say that General Grivas is rather in direct control of the Enosis campaign. He is a good patriot and he would desire to see, as all Greek Cypriots would, Cyprus united with Greece.

Union of Cyprus with Greece has always been the national aspiration of the Greek Cypriots. This national feeling has deep roots and the Greek Cypriots would favour Enosis under any circumstances. Various factors, however, and mainly the opposition of Turkey do not make Enosis attainable.

Archbishop Makarios, in an interview given to the Daily Express, London 06.04.1973


Enosis has always been for the Greek Cypriots a deep-rooted national aspiration. To me independence is a compromise. In other words, if I had a free choice between Enosis and independence, I would support Enosis.

Archbishop Makarios, in an interview with the Frankfurter Rundschau reported in the Cyprus Mail 16.05.1974


and while I am at it here are c ouple more not from Makarios

Freedom for us means only the integration of this southern outpost of Hellenism into the national entity . . .

Tassos Papadopoulos, at the celebration of United Nations Day in Limassol.
23.10.67


Interpreting the age-long aspirations of the Greeks of Cyprus, the House declares that despite any adverse circumstances it will not suspend the struggle conducted with the support of all Greeks, until this struggle succeeds in uniting the whole and undivided Cyprus with the Motherland, without any intermediate stages.

Unanimous resolution of the Greek Cypriot House of Representatives 26.06.1967


Now I appologise for such a long list of quotes but really main source you clearly need such a 'bombardment' of the true statments of Makarios and his views on ENOSIS and the desire for ENOSIS.

So you can say a million times more that Makarios was against ENOSIS after 1960 but you would either been mistaken or a lier.
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Postby cannedmoose » Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:35 pm

Crickey, that was fast research erolz :lol:

Congrats on your millennium status incidentally. Do you realise that you, insan and brother (the major TC contributors) account for 25% of the forum :lol: :wink:
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Postby turkcyp » Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:55 pm

Main_Source wrote:Makarios was against Enosis after Cyprus' independance, thats why EOKA B came after him to kill him. We have said this a million times...but you pettyness of always wanting a GC leader to be a bad guy wont allow you to take it in.


And yes who appointed Clerides, T.Pap., and Yeorkadjis. Oh I am sorry you do not believe that Akritas plan was about Enosis. Man open your eyes see what idolizing people is doing to this country.
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Postby Bananiot » Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:02 pm

Michalis Papapetrou, from United Democrats Party (Vasiliou), claimed in an interview that while he was a high school student in 1964, he was trained, with his fellow students, in arms, in order to execute the Akritas Plan. He revealed the above in order to answer someone who said that the atrocities were committed by a handful of fanatics. In my opinion the fanatics reigned supreme at the time and they were the majority. The people with any sense were once again a sorry minority.
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Postby cannedmoose » Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:03 pm

turkcyp wrote:
Main_Source wrote:Makarios was against Enosis after Cyprus' independance, thats why EOKA B came after him to kill him. We have said this a million times...but you pettyness of always wanting a GC leader to be a bad guy wont allow you to take it in.


And yes who appointed Clerides, T.Pap., and Yeorkadjis. Oh I am sorry you do not believe that Akritas plan was about Enosis. Man open your eyes see what idolizing people is doing to this country.


I'd be reticent to put ol' Glafkos in that illustrious group. He may have his faults but I don't think he's as much of a gangster as the rest of them...
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Postby turkcyp » Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:14 pm

cannedmoose wrote:I'd be reticent to put ol' Glafkos in that illustrious group. He may have his faults but I don't think he's as much of a gangster as the rest of them...


I have explained before. Common sentiment among TCs is there are tolerable EOKA people and enosisists (like Clerides) and there are intolerable EOKA people and enosisists (like T.Pap.)

So yes there is a distinction being made among the two even among TCs. T.Pap has definetly been seen as much more nationalistic, hardliner, racist, even “Turk hater”, where as we know that Clerides is also nationalist and hardliner to an extent but have never seen him as racist and as “Turk hater”.

I don't know why, may be it is because of his personal relationship with Denktas.
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