Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Piratis

Murataga, the war between Cyprus and Turkey started in 1974.

If you want to talk about history and the conflicts betwen Turks and Greeks in general, and play the "who started it" game, then it all started when you first invaded us in 1571, killing over 20.000 Cypriots and then oppressing us for 3+ centuries. Thats the start.(unless you can find somehting we did to you before that, can you?)

But of course you didn't stop violating our rights and oppressing us in 1878 when your rule was over. In 1957 you are the ones who started to kill us and you are the ones who started the inter-communal conflict, once again collaborating with our foreign oppressors in order to deny to Cypriots their freedom and self-determination.

So don't pretent to be the victims here. We are not the ones who invaded your country with the aim to enslave you, thats what you did against us, and that is what you have done since then, almost non stop, and what you continue doing TODAY by occupying the north part of our country and declaring as "Turkish" land that belongs by 82% to Greek Cypriots.

Piratis a very clear precise and historically correct post. Well done

Humanist, I'd rather talk about today than about the past. And the fact is that today and for the last 34 years Turkey is illegally occupying Cyprus. But when some are trying to find tiny selective parts from the past in order to excuse the illegalities and crimes they commit today, then I am obligated to remind to them the true historical facts.

It is ridiculous to try to blame the half million population of this island and try to present them as the "aggressors", when we have never ventured out of our island to harm anybody. It is other powerful countries who have invaded our island with the intention to enslave us and occupy our island for their strategic reasons.

All we are asking is to finally have our freedom, to finally be allowed to have our land and our human rights, and to have a democratic country - one person one vote, without some "ruling elite" with more rights than the rights of the Cypriot people. We had enough of that, and we have every right to fight for freedom and justice!

The Turkish Cypriots are more than welcomed to be equal Cypriot citizens like every other Cypriot, with their minority and every other right protected. But they can not expect that they will become some "ruling elite" with more rights than the rest of Cypriots. The time of ottoman rule is over and we are not going back to that!

[Murataga]

I think with Christofias being the president in the south and Talat in the north, we no longer have an excuse for non-solution. So we'll either have a federal united Cyprus or we'll have permanent division in the next year or so. This is the feeling I get.

You never had an excuse for occupying our land regardless of who is the president of Cyprus. Don't hope for a permanent partition. If you do not agree for a fair and democratic solution what will happen is that the war that started in 1974 with the invasion of Cyprus by Turkey will continue.

The war started when you ousted the TCs from the government by force, started killing TCs simply for refusing to give up their rights granted by the Zurich Agrement, invited the Greek army to help you out with your murders and enclaving the TCs for not submitting to your agression. 1974 was nothing but our exit from the enclaves and crippling your dream of ENOSIS.

Progress for any and all fair solutions will begin the minute you accept that you are nothing but ONE of the TWO communities of Cyprus. Let us know when you are ready.

Murataga, the war between Cyprus and Turkey started in 1974.

No, it didn`t. That is the whole point. You are not Cyprus, just a community in it. And you assembled an an Army against the constituion of the RoC established per the Zurich Agrements. That illegal organization killed innocent TCs and fatally attempted to annex the island to Greece. There has never been a war between Cyprus and Turkey. Just a war between the criminal gang you assembled and a NATO member Army.

If you want to talk about history and the conflicts betwen Turks and Greeks in general, and play the "who started it" game, then it all started when you first invaded us in 1571, killing over 20.000 Cypriots and then oppressing us for 3+ centuries. Thats the start.(unless you can find somehting we did to you before that, can you?)

But of course you didn't stop violating our rights and oppressing us in 1878 when your rule was over. In 1957 you are the ones who started to kill us and you are the ones who started the inter-communal conflict, once again collaborating with our foreign oppressors in order to deny to Cypriots their freedom and self-determination.

I would love to talk about the general conflict between the Turks and the Greeks as long as you like and s much as you like. But the bottom of line of it is that you can not break a constitution established in 1959 as a result of an international Agreement by killing people for refusing the violation of that constituion in the second half of the 20th century, and justify this by your pathetic interpretation of what happened 4 centuries ago. It won`t work.

Your crimes are today, your crimes are against people alive and your crimes are real. Own up to them.

So don't pretent to be the victims here. We are not the ones who invaded your country with the aim to enslave you, thats what you did against us, and that is what you have done since then, almost non stop, and what you continue doing TODAY by occupying the north part of our country and declaring as "Turkish" land that belongs by 82% to Greek Cypriots.

I am not pretending anything which is much more than what I can say for you. The fact is that TCs live in the North. The TCs which you refuse to accept as your political equals. They ended up there because of your crimes... Your crime of ousting the TCs from the government by force, killing TCs simply for refusing to give up their rights granted by the Zurich Agrement, inviting the Greek army to help you out with your murders and enclaving the TCs for not submitting to your agression.

And what is more striking is that you conveniently choose to divert the heart of the matter for how to proceed for a peaceful solution: accept that you are nothing but ONE of the TWO COMMUNITIES of this island. Are you prepared to do this or not? Simple question.

[Get Real!]

Murataga,

The indigenous Cypriots got rooted repeatedly for thousands of years by all and sundry, and for once they allegedly root some Turkish leftovers from one of their previous roots, and all of a sudden it's bad for the indigenous Cypriots to root others? Well root me silly!

To root or not to root... that is the question!

[humanist]

Murataga, we are not one of two communites on the Island, We are one community and in that community there are greek/turkish/ maronite/ jewish and latin communties you as one of the largest minority groups belive that you are abpve everyone else. We do not exclude you and we do not separate ourselves from the rest. In facty if nothing else I learnt that there were 379 TC's who live in the south who cast their vote in the presidential electionare you ready to be fair and equal and allow us to return to our country. of course not. Because you have no idea about fairness. Only tate take take.

[Piratis]

Murataga, TCs had partition as their aim since the 50s, and that is why you started the conflict against us. To achieve the partition that you wanted. You started to kill us, not the other way around.

Here are some parts of a British (your good allies) made documentary about the period:





The war between Turkey and Cyprus started in 1974 when Turkey against international laws invaded the independent and sovereign Republic of Cyprus, and then refused to obey the UN resolutions that called for its withdrawal.

Here is the relevant resolution: http://www.un.int/cyprus/scr353.htm

So don't try to pretend the innocent victim. You had some victims, yes. But if you want to play the "who started it" game, the answer is that you did, and if you want to play the "who suffered most" game, the answer is that we did.

I don't want to play those games, because I am not trying to find excuses to violate your rights or take your land, like you are trying to find excuses from the past to violate our rights and take our land. What I want is human rights for all democracy for all and everybody to get his own land back in a truly united Cyprus with no more racist discriminations and crimes.

[Piratis]

And what is more striking is that you conveniently choose to divert the heart of the matter for how to proceed for a peaceful solution: accept that you are nothing but ONE of the TWO COMMUNITIES of this island. Are you prepared to do this or not? Simple question.

There are many communities in Cyprus. The Greek Cypriot community, the Turkish Cypriot community, the Armenian community, the Latin community and the Maronite community. All together make us the one Cypriot people.

If you want to divide Cypriots based on their ehtnic background and use that as an excuse to deprive from the rest of Cypriots their land and their human and democratic rights then don't expect us, the rest of Cypriots, to accept such racist thing against us. The Ottoman empire when people where divided into higher class Muslims and lower class Christians is over. We are not going back to that. All Cypriots should be equal regardless of their ethnic background.

[Murataga]

And what is more striking is that you conveniently choose to divert the heart of the matter for how to proceed for a peaceful solution: accept that you are nothing but ONE of the TWO COMMUNITIES of this island. Are you prepared to do this or not? Simple question.

There are many communities in Cyprus. The Greek Cypriot community, the Turkish Cypriot community, the Armenian community, the Latin community and the Maronite community. All together make us the one Cypriot people.

No, there are two communities and many minoroty groups in Cyprus. Even in the 1960 constitution, the groups beside the TCs and the GCs are specifically categorized as minorities and the GCs and TCs are recognized as the two founding parties of the state with constitutional communal privelages. The establishing agreements of the RoC bears the signature of the two communal leaders. Furthermore, the fact that GCs and the TCs are TWO communities of Cyprus has been explicitly acknowledged by your leaders since the high level agreements of 1979, the U.N., EU and the US. Care to challenge any of this ?

If you want to divide Cypriots based on their ehtnic background and use that as an excuse to deprive from the rest of Cypriots their land and their human and democratic rights then don't expect us, the rest of Cypriots, to accept such racist thing against us. The Ottoman empire when people where divided into higher class Muslims and lower class Christians is over. We are not going back to that. All Cypriots should be equal regardless of their ethnic background.

By attacking and killing the TCs based on your crusade to Hellenize Cyprus and/or annex it to Greece, you were the ones to deprive us from our lands - way before 1974. You invited the Greek army way before 1974 and you were the ones that did evreything within their power to unite this island with Greece after RoC was functional. Hell, you even had a resolution in 1967 explicitly stating that ENOSIS was your overall objective. Be a pal and check if this resolution is still in order for me will you?

Now back to the question: do you or do you not accept that you are ONE of the TWO COMMUNITIES of Cyprus? Yes or No?

[Piratis]

And what is more striking is that you conveniently choose to divert the heart of the matter for how to proceed for a peaceful solution: accept that you are nothing but ONE of the TWO COMMUNITIES of this island. Are you prepared to do this or not? Simple question.

There are many communities in Cyprus. The Greek Cypriot community, the Turkish Cypriot community, the Armenian community, the Latin community and the Maronite community. All together make us the one Cypriot people.

No, there are two communities and many minoroty groups in Cyprus. Even in the 1960 constitution, the groups beside the TCs and the GCs are specifically categorized as minorities and the GCs and TCs are recognized as the two founding parties of the state with constitutional communal privelages. The establishing agreements of the RoC bears the signature of the two communal leaders. Furthermore, the fact that GCs and the TCs are TWO communities of Cyprus has been explicitly acknowledged by your leaders since the high level agreements of 1979, the U.N., EU and the US. Care to challenge any of this ?

If you want to divide Cypriots based on their ehtnic background and use that as an excuse to deprive from the rest of Cypriots their land and their human and democratic rights then don't expect us, the rest of Cypriots, to accept such racist thing against us. The Ottoman empire when people where divided into higher class Muslims and lower class Christians is over. We are not going back to that. All Cypriots should be equal regardless of their ethnic background.

By attacking and killing the TCs based on your crusade to Hellenize Cyprus and/or annex it to Greece, you were the ones to deprive us from our lands - way before 1974. You invited the Greek army way before 1974 and you were the ones that did evreything within their power to unite this island with Greece after RoC was functional. Hell, you even had a resolution in 1967 explicitly stating that ENOSIS was your overall objective. Be a pal and check if this resolution is still in order for me will you?

Now back to the question: do you or do you not accept that you are ONE of the TWO COMMUNITIES of Cyprus? Yes or No?

Murataga, if you want to define what you are based on the 1959 agreements you have to accept those agreements as a whole, something that you have never done since your plan has always been and continues to be partition. All agreements are valid as a whole, not pick and choose the parts you like.

If you accept the 1959 agreements, then stop the occupation of the north part of our country, obey legality, and then you can call yourselves the "kings" if you wish, as long as you do not steal my land and violate my human and democratic rights.

You again repeat your same old propaganda even when I have shown to you a British documentary that shows that YOU started the inter-communal conflict back in 1957. And even in 1963 here is how the conflict resumed:

On 21 December 1963, an angry Turkish-Cypriot crowd surrounded an armed and nervous Greek-Cypriot police patrol in Nicosia. Accounts of the confrontation differ between the Cypriot communities. On one point, however, they agree; two Turk-Cypriot civilians and one Greek-Cypriot policeman were shot dead. This incident marked a major crisis in the Cypriot inter-communal conflict. The struggle developed into one of overt violence. The initiative fell from the hands of the politicians and was taken up by the communal paramilitary forces.

So don't try to present yourselves the innocent victims, that now deserve to be rewarded on the expense of the human and democratic rights of all the other Cypriots that do not belong to your community.

What I am is a native Cypriot. If you want to belong to some separate Turkish community on the island no problem at all. When was your separate community created by the way? The day that the Ottomans landed on this island and started to butcher us by the 1000s? Where they the "TC community"? Or it was created much more recently? When was the first reference to a "Turkish Cypriot community" Murataga? Do you know?

[repulsewarrior]

mura, your interpretation of the Constitution is incorrect. no minority is identified superior to another. as a matter of fact no ethnicity is identified as superior to others in any way. read it again. it identifies two communities, Greek and Turkish who have rights in sustaining themselves; that much is true. and if you were truly astute you would take a page from my ramblings about the Communal Chamber, which should be the basis of all your contentions as a Cypriot who is Turcophone, and the injustice that you now b(h)ey about. frankly your whining does nothing, because it is propaganda. you are dogmatic, and you do no homework. i am sorry but the awful you serve is not even pudding for dogs. if you value life, you value loving. no human life has a price (as yet) so what was once Turkish or Greek, lost or sacrificed, is the same, and our duty is to respect this loss with our own grace.

it seems that you wish to get off the donkey you ride with, to kill it and eat its meat. otherwise, treat it with respect because that donkey is your life.

[Murataga]

Murataga, TCs had partition as their aim since the 50s, and that is why you started the conflict against us. To achieve the partition that you wanted. You started to kill us, not the other way around.

Here are some parts of a British (your good allies) made documentary about the period:

See below for details.

The war between Turkey and Cyprus started in 1974

No, it didn`t and there has been no war between the RoC and Turkey. A community of the Cyprus assembled an an army against the constituion of the RoC established per the Zurich Agrements. That illegal organization killed innocent TCs and fatally attempted to annex the island to Greece. The only war that took place was between the criminal gang you assembled and a NATO member Army.

when Turkey against international laws invaded the independent and sovereign Republic of Cyprus, and then refused to obey the UN resolutions that called for its withdrawal.

Here is the relevant resolution: http://www.un.int/cyprus/scr353.htm

It says "immediate end to foreign military intervention". I believe that would include Greece and all her military personel, weapons, logistics and accoomodating financial support on the island as well. Is this part covered by your end; or better yet has it ever been?

So don't try to pretend the innocent victim. You had some victims, yes. But if you want to play the "who started it" game, the answer is that you did, and if you want to play the "who suffered most" game, the answer is that we did.

You were the COMMUNITY outnumbering us 1 to 4 with an objective of handing the island to Greece. With that, you had the initiative and you established a paramilitary organization that destroyed anything and everything that stood in the way of uniting the whole of Cyprus with Greece. You launched your offensive and we resisted. Check the sequence of the dates which EOKA and TMT were established...

I don't want to play those games, because I am not trying to find excuses to violate your rights or take your land, like you are trying to find excuses from the past to violate our rights and take our land. What I want is human rights for all democracy for all and everybody to get his own land back in a truly united Cyprus with no more racist discriminations and crimes.

Rights are not valid when it only suits you. We all have rights and all of our rights have limitations. Your rights are as that of a COMMUNITY; do you accept this or not?