Cyprus-Forum.com

by **denizaksulu** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:44 pm

Oracle wrote:
DT. wrote:
iceman wrote:
DT. wrote:Halil, the saying in Greek goes "the soaking man is not afraid of the water."

we have a similar say in Turkish "wet man not afraid of rain"

Even our sayings? You just take, take , take....

DT. ..... do not worry there is a subtle difference between our (better) saying and theirs (courtesy of Bob Dylan):

"Some people feel the rain. Others just get wet." .......

That should have been, "some people feel the pain". :lol:

by **iceman** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:44 pm

DT. wrote:
iceman wrote:
Oracle wrote:
DT. wrote:
iceman wrote:
DT. wrote:Halil, the saying in Greek goes "the soaking man is not afraid of the water."

we have a similar say in Turkish "wet man not afraid of rain"

Even our sayings? You just take, take , take....

DT. ..... do not worry there is a subtle difference between our (better) saying and theirs (courtesy of Bob Dylan):

"Some people feel the rain. Others just get wet." .......

you two keep forgetting over half of the words in your language derived from Turkish...

ate assihtir re pezevengi!

he he he...you see what i mean?.....you can't even swear without using Turkish.. :lol:

by **repulsewarrior** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:44 pm

The Greeks are on the defensive now and likely to remain so if the Turkish side takes additional assertive steps. For example, if the Turkish government decides to seek the approval in Parliament of a protocol for a customs union to open its airports and harbors to Greek Cypriot vessels, the Greek Cypriot government will lose the most important leverage against Turkey in the EU context. Then the suspended eight negotiation chapters will be opened for accession negotiations, speeding up the integration of Turkey into the EU. The Greek side then could not afford any attempt to put pressure on Turkey via the EU, since it would further alienate them in Europe.

...if Turkey accepts the Protocol that it signed, Turkey removes from itself a hinderance to its own progress. In terms of Cyprus it would be a measure that would increase confidence, and I believe it will do a great deal to improve the atmosphere that is so caustic at the moment. Furthermore the recognition that will necessarily follow, for the sovereignty of the island and its Government, will do a great deal to end the impasse that has been a significant part of Turkey's Foreign Policy, hardly leaving their adversary shaking in their boots. I need not remind you, that so far, Greece and Cyprus have been the friends of Turkey, vis a vis its EU accession. This will hardly change. Rather, it will be reinforced.

Furthermore, the Greek side has to deal with the possible impact of Kosovar independence on the Cyprus question. Since 2004, as everyone knows, the government of northern Cyprus has received increasing international visibility and even acquired some degree of recognition. After the independence of Kosovo many ask the question: why not northern Cyprus?

...why not Northern Cyprus, because there exists an occupation of foreign troops. why not Northern Cyprus, because there are about 150,000 people, well more than half the population of this part which were displaced by the illegal acts of Turkey as an aggresor. why not Northern Cyprus, because the UN still is and has been the final arbiter in this matter, not the EU or NATO. why not Northern Cyprus, because its UDI received no support at all when it was declared.

It is pretty clear that the outcome of such a referendum would be independence in the wake of disappointment with the Greek side in 2004 and disillusionment with the EU. Nor should we forget the growing self-confidence of the Turks in recent years. No longer expecting salvation through the EU, the Turks on the island have taken their own course of action to improve the standard of life on the island. The north is prospering.

...i would suggest that your premise is dated. TPap, had he been reelected, would surely be a raison d'etre for such an effort. But, such is not at all the case. At this moment the situaton is quite hopeful, and any referendum of this kind at this point would most likely have adverse affects on your desire, it may even fail. As for the TRNC prosperity (and/or credibility), I'll believe it is a matter of importance when as an administration it offers it's own social programs toward universal health care, and it can supply services such as electricity without the Republic's support. Furthermore, I hardly think that in four short years the Turkish Cypriot Authority has improved as you say since they have had over twenty years to do the same. It is a very poor argument you present because it implies that this body of governance waited for handouts from others, and only helped itself when this help was not forthcoming.

Time has never been on the side of the people of Cyprus, and on this Turkey has always relied. Taking from its Ottoman roots, this policy has always been successful. However, the world's political affairs, and Turkey's, are far more complex now.

by **Viewpoint** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:19 pm

Kikapu wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Kikapu wrote:

IHSAN DAGI seems to know everything, except what Germany and France said only 2 weeks ago, which was "No way Jose" to Turkey's EU membership as a full member.

As for Turkey taking the initiative to bring peace to Cyprus, I can't see it happening as long as the BBF that the TC's want comes in a form of a "disguised partition" and not in a form of a True Federation, which was clearly rejected by 75% of the GC's on the AP and not just by Papadopoulos as most like to blame. I'm only surprised that the "YES" TC vote was a very disappointing 65%, despite promises being made by the EU to lift the isolation on the "TRNC" if the TC's voted "YES" on the AP. That promise alone should have raised the 65% to 95%. Just imagine if those promises were not made. Can we say that the TC vote on the AP may also have been an OXI and the GC's 75% would have been even higher. I would have bet my bottom dollar on that outcome, for sure.

So, in essence, it was a bad plan all around, and as recently as couple of months ago, the True TC's overwhelmingly have rejected a "Partition Plan" in a survey taken in the "TRNC". I do not believe the True TC's want a direct or indirect partition of any kind. They want a settlement that will last and not for a very short time before the Fascist from either side can incite violence again.

So youll be fine when we reject the next plan which we feel is not fair or will you continue blindly supporting the GC viewpoint as per usual?

Once again VP, thank you for not disputing the above analysis. The only problem you seem to have, as always, is being told the truth. I know you have a great difficulty handling that, so needless to say, all your negative response comments are treated with the respect it deserves...........into the rubbish bin.!!

Of course you can refuse anything that is not Fair and Just for the True TC's and I will support you in that rejection. You would have refused the "dream come true" Annan Plan if promises were not made by the EU to lift isolation, so what makes me think you will accept anything less that does not grant the TC's Northern part of Cyprus as a pure Turkish Land or "Virgin Birth" as Kifeas calls it. Did you not already tells us that, unless the above happens, the last 40+ years would be in VAIN. Let me go one step further and say, that you will refuse anything that will be presented in the future, unless the above is on the table, even if the 1960 Constitution is re-instated. Why, because as our good friend Nikitas very correctly stated many times, that the TC's want to be the Masters in the North and Partners in the South, in some made for measure Confederation democracy to run the North as another country, while imposing rules that will not be beneficial to all Cypriots. If this is what you call Fair and Just, then I cannot support you....sorry.

Return to the 1960 Constitution and solve the problems that exists with that Constitution as BirKibrisli has suggested, because it is not workable the way it was written, or ask for a True Federation similar to the one I've suggested, and then you will have my support.

Lets see if you can be Fair and Just, just like me or do you deserve more than that VP.??

Again the truth according to whom? You?

You can be assured that TCs will not just jump as any solution as time as passed and we have had the opportunity to understand the GCs and how they view us in a united Cyprus we will reject anything that we do not feel is fair just like the GCs in the last referendum, surely you will agree if they have that right then so do we being one of the sides that has to be satisfied.

The North will always be run by TCs when will you understand that this is the minimum we require to agree a solution, the south can be run totally by GCs we do not have any objections to this and they shoudl not also.

Why return to somehting which didnt work 45 years ago what makes you think it will work this time and how soon will i be before we havea repeat Akritas plan? WHy nt agree something that we cna all commit to a forced partnership will never work and be a receipe to disaster.

Maters in the north and partners in the south??? why do you that why not the reverse? GCs will be masters in the south and partners in the north threatening to swmp and overtake us in the North why do you only argue from one angle? the GC one?

by **repulsewarrior** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:18 am

vp, my proposal should interest you. beside your desire to stay wherever you live, and your fear of Greek Cypriots. What is wrong with two National Assemblies as well as the Federal Govt. as I have described?