Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

Choosing between the two!

On Sunday, we are called upon making a difficult decision on who will be our leader for the next 5 years, in anticipation that this will not become a reality due to having a solution of the Cyprus issue before the end of the term!

I find both candidates to be fairly honest and sincere, with good intentions and desire to serve the best interests of our country, much like Papadopoulos and all previous elected leaders were!

I will try to identify the strong points of each candidate that are of the most relevance to the long sought solution of the Cyprus problem, the most important issue lying in front of the GC society for so many decades.

Kasoulides has a better chance in exercising pressure on Turkey through external factors, mainly through the EU and its member states, mainly because of his party strong affiliations with the European People’s party (EPP –Christian democrats) and the fact that it constitutes the biggest /strongest alliance in the EU. He is certainly capable of overturning to a large extent the whatever negative climate may exist in the EU, due to our very disserved and rightful rejection of the Anan plan.

His disadvantage is that he was one of the supporters of the plan in the referendum, and his case for the much needed major changes to its illegitimate partitionist and apartheid philosophy, may not be as convincing! Furthermore, his rightwing conservative affiliations with the nationalistic portion of the GC society -those that feel ashamed to carry the flag of their country even during their campaign efforts to elected the very president of this country, may not be as convincing to the TC society either!

Imagine on Sunday night, if Kasoulides wins the election, an Eleftheria stadium full of thousands of Hellenic Republic flags and almost zero flags of the country for which Kasoulides was elected as its president! Definitely not the best message to be send to the TC community and those in the international community whose sympathy we seek in order to solve the Cyprus problem on the basis of one sovereign and independed federal bi-communal country but of one (united) people (one nation-state;) as opposed to the illegitimate, apartheid and partitionist one fervently promoted by the Turks (Turkey and the TC leadership,) based on the invented “virgin-birth” concept of a loose federation (read confederation) between “two nations” (people) “two republics” (two semi-sovereign ethnically based territories) and two religions!

Christofias, on the other hand, appears to have the better chances in exactly the opposite directions, than Kasoulides! He is not as competent in winning much of the international support Kasoulides would have been able to achieve, however he is more trusted among the masses of the TC community (not the TC leadership servants of Turkey’s illegitimate interests over Cyprus –those will be the most scared ones from his election.) Christofias is capable of sending much more positive messages towards the other community, will be more welcoming and facilitating to their needs, he is rightfully viewed as more pro-Cypriot and less ethno-centric and nationalistic; one that is capable of motivating and even mobilizing more effectively the TC community in exercising internal pressure on Turkey and to its sub-servient nationalistic leadership!

It is a huge dilemma we are faced with! If you believe that a fair and lasting solution to the Cyprus issue will more easily come through external (international) pressure on Turkey, which will then be transferred onto the TC leadership to abandon its illegitimate ambitions visa vie the solution, then Kasoulides –despite his other handicaps -may definitely be a better choice! If on the other hand, you believe that such a solution may more easily come through an internal pressure on Turkey and the TC leadership, exercised by winning the TC community itself, then Christofias is definitely a better choice!

I am personally not sure what is better (more effective) of the two options! I wish one candidate alone would have possessed both qualities together! Unfortunately, each one is better in only one direction, and I do not know which one (direction) is the most effective! It is a difficult dilemma!

PS: Miltiades, please do not come to this thread with your outdated obnoxious anti-communist syndromes! No one in the international community takes Christofia’s “pro-communist” background as serious as you imagine!

[miltiades]

Choosing between the two!

On Sunday, we are called upon making a difficult decision on who will be our leader for the next 5 years, in anticipation that this will not become a reality due to having a solution of the Cyprus issue before the end of the term!

I find both candidates to be fairly honest and sincere, with good intentions and desire to serve the best interests of our country, much like Papadopoulos and all previous elected leaders were!

I will try to identify the strong points of each candidate that are of the most relevance to the long sought solution of the Cyprus problem, the most important issue lying in front of the GC society for so many decades.

Kasoulides has a better chance in exercising pressure on Turkey through external factors, mainly through the EU and its member states, mainly because of his party strong affiliations with the European People’s party (EPP –Christian democrats) and the fact that it constitutes the biggest /strongest alliance in the EU. He is certainly capable of overturning to a large extent the whatever negative climate may exist in the EU, due to our very disserved and rightful rejection of the Anan plan.

His disadvantage is that he was one of the supporters of the plan in the referendum, and his case for the much needed major changes to its illegitimate partitionist and apartheid philosophy, may not be as convincing! Furthermore, his rightwing conservative affiliations with the nationalistic portion of the GC society -those that feel ashamed to carry the flag of their country even during their campaign efforts to elected the very president of this country, may not be as convincing to the TC society either!

Imagine on Sunday night, if Kasoulides wins the election, an Eleftheria stadium full of thousands of Hellenic Republic flags and almost zero flags of the country for which Kasoulides was elected as its president! Definitely not the best message to be send to the TC community and those in the international community whose sympathy we seek in order to solve the Cyprus problem on the basis of one sovereign and independed federal bi-communal country but of one (united) people (one nation-state;) as opposed to the illegitimate, apartheid and partitionist one fervently promoted by the Turks (Turkey and the TC leadership,) based on the invented “virgin-birth” concept of a loose federation (read confederation) between “two nations” (people) “two republics” (two semi-sovereign ethnically based territories) and two religions!

Christofias, on the other hand, appears to have the better chances in exactly the opposite directions, than Kasoulides! He is not as competent in winning much of the international support Kasoulides would have been able to achieve, however he is more trusted among the masses of the TC community (not the TC leadership servants of Turkey’s illegitimate interests over Cyprus –those will be the most scared ones from his election.) Christofias is capable of sending much more positive messages towards the other community, will be more welcoming and facilitating to their needs, he is rightfully viewed as more pro-Cypriot and less ethno-centric and nationalistic; one that is capable of motivating and even mobilizing more effectively the TC community in exercising internal pressure on Turkey and to its sub-servient nationalistic leadership!

It is a huge dilemma we are faced with! If you believe that a fair and lasting solution to the Cyprus issue will more easily come through external (international) pressure on Turkey, which will then be transferred onto the TC leadership to abandon its illegitimate ambitions visa vie the solution, then Kasoulides –despite his other handicaps -may definitely be a better choice! If on the other hand, you believe that such a solution may more easily come through an internal pressure on Turkey and the TC leadership, exercised by winning the TC community itself, then Christofias is definitely a better choice!

I am personally not sure what is better (more effective) of the two options! I wish one candidate alone would have possessed both qualities together! Unfortunately, each one is better in only one direction, and I do not know which one (direction) is the most effective! It is a difficult dilemma!

PS: Miltiades, please do not come to this thread with your outdated obnoxious anti-communist syndromes! No one in the international community takes Christofia’s “pro-communist” background as serious as you imagine!

Kifeas I actually agree with most of what you are saying , I also find the display of the foreign Greek flag by the Kassoulides supporters as non constructive and a display that sends entirely the wrong message to our T/C compatriots . I have praised the efforts of AKEL over the years in obtaining tremendous benefits for the working Cypriot , I bear no animosity against Mr. Christofias , neither have I questioned his ability to undertake the Cypriot presidency. My entire objection is based on the fact , that although you seem to think otherwise , that a communist president for a nation that is partly under the occupation of a NATO member country, is more likely to be a hindrance than an advantage to the cause of Cyprus. Mr Christofias might be trusted more by the T/Cs than Mr.Kassoulides , but is he also seen as the man who would be a pushover
and much more likely to convince the Americans to maintain their current position by not recognising the "TRNC" .I think Turkey would most certainly make use of Mr Christofias's communist credentials in lobbying for recognition of the "TRNC" .I believe that he would be isolated by Europe and frankly would not be effective in presenting the Cyprob in a favourable manner. I have said before Mr Kifeas , let us live to fight another battle , and we can only do this by having a man like Kassoulides as the president . We can trust his European credentials , he is seen as a moderate and he is more likely to present a favourable aspect to the Cyprob.


Shortly there will be a new American president. Do not underestimate the impact that a communist Cypriot president will have either with the Democrats or Republicans, too many American soldiers died fighting communists , I doubt very much that either party will have much rapport with Mr. Christofias , or as the AKEL web side refers to him Comrade Christofias.
I believe that with comrade Christofias as president of Cyprus , America will feel less inclined to maintain her current position , highly detrimental to the relations with a VERY important ally , and that recognition or relaxation of embargoes leading to recognition will start from Monday February 25th should a communist leader is elected.
If Mr Kassoulides wins , then perhaps it will encourage AKEL to revamp and rename as the Cypriot Socialist Party and drop that contentious title with all its connotations of the Soviet era , COMRADE.
I beg you farewell my comrade Kifeas.

[Oracle]

I welcome Kifeas' sober comparison between the choice that the Cypriots face.

My despair at the much branded extremes that await us, depending on the outcome, is somewhat alleviated. Whoever wins, will strive only to bring what they believe is best for Cyprus .... and since no one has the answer, we have to trust to fortune. Both men are intelligent and able.

Perhaps we should think more about rallying behind their positive attributes; the world judges not just our leaders, but us as people.

It is up to all us Cypriots to show the World we exist, we care, we want the right solution for our country .... and if we are judged deserving, this would assist our President to bring home the goodies.

[Get Real!]

The only “international support” (read stab in the back) that ANY RoC government ever managed was the notorious Anan Plan! (under DISY)

This goes to show that there’s no such thing as “international support” worth having so there is no point in looking for any.

If the only choices for Cyprus are between partition (international support) and slow geopolitical change (no support) then I’ll happily go for the latter.

[Oracle]

Why do you think International preference is for partition? That would have happened by now if that was the case.

[Get Real!]

Why do you think International preference is for partition? That would have happened by now if that was the case.

Because the US/UK/EU, and Russia are more interested in pleasing Turkey than Cyprus. Most of the above countries have tried EVERYTHING possible so far, except for an invasion of their own, to partition the island.
Where have you been?

[kalahari]

I wholeheartedly agree with Kifeas on this one:

Imagine on Sunday night, if Kasoulides wins the election, an Eleftheria stadium full of thousands of Hellenic Republic flags and almost zero flags of the country for which Kasoulides was elected as its president! Definitely not the best message to be send to the TC community and those in the international community

Having come from a country where to fly the national flag is considered by many to an act of extreme fascism and whose sense of independent nationality is being eroded by those very people who claim to represent their countrymen (England), I find it both puzzling and faintly abhorrent that many Cypriots are more proud of a country whose capital is over 500 miles away (Greece) than of their own independent homeland.

Imagine what the Greeks will make of it! I would imagine in the current climate of "glasnost" with Turkey, they will want to distance themselves from Cyprus as much as they are (politely) able.

[Oracle]

Why do you think International preference is for partition? That would have happened by now if that was the case.

Because the US/UK/EU, and Russia are more interested in pleasing Turkey than Cyprus. Most of the above countries have tried EVERYTHING possible so far, except for an invasion of their own, to partition the island.
Where have you been?

Well how long has the "TRNC" existed without recognition?

C.f. Kosovo ... Within one day of declaration of independence .... and instant recognition from US, UK et. al.

[Get Real!]

Why do you think International preference is for partition? That would have happened by now if that was the case.

Because the US/UK/EU, and Russia are more interested in pleasing Turkey than Cyprus. Most of the above countries have tried EVERYTHING possible so far, except for an invasion of their own, to partition the island.
Where have you been?

Well how long has the "TRNC" existed without recognition?

C.f. Kosovo ... Within one day of declaration of independence .... and instant recognition from US, UK et. al.

I suspect that's because back in 74 nobody was interested in Turkey so the UN swiftly condemned their actions with various resolutions, but had Turkey invaded today I doubt the UN would've found anything wrong with it!

The now aged UN resolutions must either be implemented, revoked, or modified for the "TRNC" to receive any upgrade and that's next to impossible to be agreed upon these days, but that doesn't mean that they have a problem with Turkey hanging around illegally.

It’s a stinking world we are living in…

[Get Real!]

NB: Turkey is violating the sovereignty of Iraq on a regular basis these days yet the UN has no opinion on this.