Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz]

Read it and discover it.

I read it and still have no idea why you posted it. You could of course just say why you think it is relevant to anything said in the thread so far or how it supports the allegations you have made about the Greek culture hating TC - but of course that would be way to simple and unpatronising for you and would require it to have some relevance or support for your allegations, which as far as I can see it does not.

[Kifeas]

Sorry Kifeas but the three _crusader_ castles and Kyrenia castles are not the cultural heritage of Greek _Cypriots_. If you believe you are part of the Cypriot people then these castles were built by invaders to fortify their occupation of Cyprus and Cypriots. You might try and claim they are part of Greek cultural heritage, but even that is a tenous claim without qualification. The crusaders were not Greek. They were not Byzantine for than matter either. Now the Akropolis I will agree is part of Greek cultrual heritage (but not Cypriot cultural heritage) but the crusader castles?
Further what makes you think we (TC) hide the (real) cultural heritage of these monuments? Have you been to any of them? Have you read the handed out facts sheets they give at these monuments? Does it say they were built by TC or Turks? Or does it lay out their know history - which can be read in any half decent guide book to Cyprus?
You seem so reasonable when met in person - but then you start with claims like the above ???
For your information the Byzantine was not a (solely) 'Greek' empire or culture. Try having a look here for more info

Erol,
The three “crusader” castles and the Kyrenia castle have all begun during the Byzantine period and subsequently utilised and /or reinforced during later periods such as the Lusignan, Venetian period, etc. Byzantine empire was not a Greek empire as much as the Ottoman empire was not a Turkish empire and as much as any Empire is not a purely mono-ethnic, mono-cultural and mono-lingual. For the sake of accuracy though, the official language and official religion of the Byzantine Empire (at least during its peak times,) were Greek, and Christian Orthodox.

I do not really put much emphasis on the period in which each monument was built in order to determine its ownership. The Ownership belongs to the people of the country in which they were built. Why is that? Because the land they were built on, the materials utilised in order to be built them and most importantly the Labour that was used (either paid or unpaid, forced or voluntary) came (beyond any doubt) from the people that used to live in the country during each and every period under consideration. Certainly neither a Byzantine emperor nor any Venetian Lord came in Cyprus and laboured for the contraction of any of these monuments. Instead, it is the blood and the sweat of the local people that watered the slopes of St. Hilarion, Buffavento, Kantara and Bellapaise in order for them to be built, irrespective of the architectural rhythm or the period or the conquering power of the time. Consequently they belong to the people of the country (Cypriots) and to no one else.

If you accept that in Cyprus there is only one people, composed of two or more cultural and religious groups, then all the monuments of the country belong to all of the citizens that constitute this people (GCs and TCs alike.)

On the other hand, if you accept (maintain) that the TC community is a separate and distinct people from the GC community, then you have to also accept that, since the TC community (people) appeared after 1571 together with the Ottomans, any monument dating before this period belongs only to the GC community (people) as being the only people that existed during the time of their construction.

Erol, one last thing here. When you decide to reply to a posting that relates to any issue, I believe you need to read and take into consideration all the previous postings that related to it and more importantly to grasp the spirit of what is being said by someone and not the letter of any isolated sentence or even a paragraph. Especially if you also want to question on the reasonability of someone’s ideas, like you did in my case.

I said in the last paragraph of my previous posting the following:

Anyway, I am the last one that would have started such a discussion as I considered them a heritage of all Cypriots and primarily a world heritage. I was provoked by Uzan’s comments who called the north as his (theirs) side which they can open and close anytime they want.

You didn’t comment anything on his posting that initiated this discussion in the first place. Do you agree with the content of his posting? Is it your side –vs- our side and you have the ethical right to block our (GC) access to it any time you choose, as you have done for 30 years?

As for the description or presentation in various books, leaflets and websites of these monuments and generally the history of Cyprus as it relates to the north or “TRNC,” Yes, I have come across such references that clearly try to conceal the fact that GCs ever existed in the north or that they have any share in the cultural heritage of the north. At least some of them, including official publications and websites.

[cannedmoose]

Anyway, I am the last one that would have started such a discussion as I considered them a heritage of all Cypriots and primarily a world heritage.

We agree on this re...

[uzan]

[quote= kifeas;Anyway, I am the last one that would have started such a discussion as I considered them a heritage of all Cypriots and primarily a world heritage. I was provoked by Uzan’s comments who called the north as his (theirs) side which they can open and close anytime they want.[/quote]
You were provoked by my comments It is our side, if it wasn't why did you wait 30 years to come while tc were comming and working feerly in south of cyprus.When we said you can come 1000and 1000 of gc wanted to come to north is it true?
You don't want tc, you only want all of cyprus to yourself.

WE WANT EQUALITY,WE WANT RECOGNITION AND WE DEMAND RECOGNITION of TRNC and NOTHING LESS.




PEACE IS INEVITABLE TO THOSE WHO OFFER PEACE.


GOODDAY

[Kifeas]

Kifeas wrote:
Anyway, I am the last one that would have started such a discussion as I considered them a heritage of all Cypriots and primarily a world heritage.


We agree on this re...

Moose, is this the only thing on which you agree with me on this issue?

[cannedmoose]

Moose, is this the only thing on which you agree with me on this issue?

No, but I've got a mild case of mumps so I couldn't be bothered to write any more

[Kifeas]

You were provoked by my comments It is our side, if it wasn't why did you wait 30 years to come while tc were comming and working feerly in south of cyprus.When we said you can come 1000and 1000 of gc wanted to come to north is it true?
You don't want tc, you only want all of cyprus to yourself.

WE WANT EQUALITY,WE WANT RECOGNITION AND WE DEMAND RECOGNITION of TRNC and NOTHING LESS.

Anything else you want ...., boy? Tell us all your wishes and dreams?


Listen boy,
If you came in this forum to pump in empty slogans, provocations and desultory talking then just move on to your toys or to play with your friends in the garden.

[Kifeas]

No, but I've got a mild case of mumps so I couldn't be bothered to write any more

I wish you quick recovery then:(

[garbitsch]

I call insane to the people who destroy Turkish Cypriot houses, but on the other hand call Turkish Cypriots "thieves" just because they live in former Greek Cypriot property.

There are no insane people that would knock down the TC houses when they themselves were living in tents as refugees.There are insane people who just imagine that. The fact is your houses fall down by themselves because they were built with mud. Remember the relation 1/20 valuewise?

What classifies one as a thief is the getting of someone else property by force, and then claiming he "exchanged" it with his own. You are the one who said the judges exchanged their properties (by force of course)

That's too much! How can a human being claim that the houses that one community had were built with mud??????? God, I am asking my T.Cs friends to help me with this, cause I have no more intention to make a discussion with these people. I am sorry but I cannot handle it!

AS for the historical monuments, the Turkish Cypriots had never claimed that these were built by Turks (your propaganda should have at least some amount of logic). But I saw a souvenir tray in south, on which there was an old map of Cyprus along side with the flags of all of the administrations that Cyprus had, say Byzantines, Venetians, British, but one was missing!!! Guess what? Right! It was the Ottoman Empire flag!! Do you guys know the Ledra Street in Nicosia?? Ok, there is a museum towards the end of the street. Inside the museum, they put the flags of all administrations of Cyprus, except one. You are right again! They didn't put the Ottoman flag... This is what I call the manipulation of history and nothing else! Oh one more point! The official website of RoC which is www.cyprus.gov.cy, claims that the Cyprus problem was created by Turkish Cypriots who started a revolt against the government for secession! There is no mention of "enosis". Ok we make propagandas, but you guys are so blind that you cannot see the same thing happening in South!!!
One last comment, I think we should have all stoped blaming each other about the past, but what we need to do is to look for the future! I miss the moment when each person was suggesting something for the unification of Cyprus. This is what we should do. Am I wrong?

[cannedmoose]

No, but I've got a mild case of mumps so I couldn't be bothered to write any more

I wish you quick recovery then:(

Thanks man, thankfully my balls haven't swollen up (I'll wait for the jokes on that one), so it's not too bad, just makes you feel like sh*t.