Cyprus-Forum.com

[DT.]

I bet you guys are havingh a good laugh at what is happening in Belgrade at the moment. Low-life Serb hooligans stormed and burned the United States Embassy. Bastards!


By the way, DT, Mike (to his friends) Mustafagolu and his wife Demetra are personal friends of my family.

The rep of the "trnc" is married to a greek????

[Get Real!]

Utu and Expat, let's keep things simple...

Internationally, Kosovo is currently an absolute NOBODY and must therefore be desperate to survive and be accepted more than anything else. The last thing Kosovo needs right now is to start playing international games such as recognizing a UN rejected “TRNC” like you suggest.

Ask yourself, if you were the newbie president of Kosovo would it be in your newfound country’s interests to start international power-playing games?

If Kosovo is denied UN membership and EU membership because of Cyprus throwing a spanner into the works, reciprocating the 'spanner-throwing' by recognition of TRNC would not be beyond the realms of possibility.

Cyprus is in a team of bigger and stronger countries opposed to this so I doubt Kosovo will single Cyprus out.

FYI, I contacted the TRNC Rep here in Los Angles for his understanding on the Kosovo issue. He replied that Kosovo would be playing a wait-and-see strategy and will see how the new RoCy government will tackle the Cyprus Question before making a decision.

The man was right. The idea is to keep a low profile until time and good long-term relationships boost your status but that won't happen for years.

[Expatkiwi]

I bet you guys are havingh a good laugh at what is happening in Belgrade at the moment. Low-life Serb hooligans stormed and burned the United States Embassy. Bastards!


By the way, DT, Mike (to his friends) Mustafagolu and his wife Demetra are personal friends of my family.

The rep of the "trnc" is married to a greek????

Demetra Mustafagolu is a Greek-American, a Southern USA girl, a singer and a beauty queen (Miss Louisiana some years ago). She is a lovely lady. Mike is a very lucky man.

[Expatkiwi]

The difference between Kosovo & the so-called 'TRNC' is one is now recognised legally as a proper country (Kosovo),& the other isn't (so-called 'TRNC').

Aidan.

TRNC is recognized as sovereign by Turkey and Azerbaijan's NAR. Transdnistra, South Ossetia, and Abkhazia are supported by Russia, but Russia doesn't recognize them. Nagorno-Karabakh is supported by Armenia but Amenia doesn't recognize it, so TRNC has a leg up on these others, Aidan...

BTW, Helen Clark's statement on Kosovo's UDI really makes a mockery of NZ's foreign policy. She seems to have more teeth than brain cells...

[BC Numismatics]

Dean,the New Zealand Government's foreign affairs & external relations policies are a sick joke,in my view.They maintain diplomatic relations with countries whose regimes engage in some of the worst human rights abuses (Commie China,Ireland,& Turkey,etc.),yet they've hit Fiji (a fellow British Commonwealth member state) with extremely tough sanctions.Talk about hypocrisy of the highest order.

New Zealand doesn't recognise the so-called 'TRNC' though.It recognises the Government of Cyprus as the legitimate authority in the whole island,except for where the S.B.A.s are located.

Aidan.

[Nikitas]

"I bet you guys are havingh a good laugh at what is happening in Belgrade at the moment. Low-life Serb hooligans stormed and burned the United States Embassy. Bastards! "

This is where you missed the point all along. It is plain as day that this Kossovo thing is preparing the ground for a big, regional conflict. People who opposed the independence move wanted to avoid this conflict. Now it is coming and there is not much that can be done to avoid it.

[halil]

A baby brother to Turkey, Kosovo born in Europe
Cengiz ÇANDAR
I left about 200 eminent figures, mostly Americans and Arabs of the Islamic World, including Madeleine Albright, Francis Fukuyama, Sandy Berger of the Hillary Clinton team, Susan Rice of the Barack Obama team downstairs and rushed upstairs to my room at the hotel. It was 5:00 p.m. Qatar time (Turkey is one hour ahead, Kosovo two hours behind). I knew in advance that the Kosovo parliament will convene for a declaration of independence during an emergency session. So I had to turn on the TV.

The day before, I had learned that, Foreign Minister Ali Babacan, just like Afghanistan President Hamid Kharzai, Albright and Zalmay Khalilzad, the former U.S. ambassador to Iraq, canceled a trip to Abu Dhabi and was rushing back to Turkey after he gave an address at the fifth “U.S.-Islamic World Forum” in Doha.

Recognizing Kosovo:

“We have to be in Ankara on Sunday. We'll convene in the afternoon and have to have talks in order to be one of the states recognizing the independence of Kosovo,” Babacan had said. Frankly I thought we were a bit late in doing so. It would've been more appropriate to recognize Kosovo not after but simultaneously with the United States or some of the leading countries of the European Union. After all, Kosovo has been part of us for centuries since the day it was taken over by Serbs yet won back by the Ottoman Sultan Murat Hüdavendigar I after the Battle of Kosovo in 1389.

In fact, we are so close with the Kosovars that population of Kosovars living in Turkey is said to be much more than those living in Kosovo.

Kosovo is the home country of Mehmet Akif Ersoy, writer of the Turkish national anthem, and many others. Turkey and Kosovo are like flesh and blood. Muslim Albanians in Kosovo are inseparable from the Kosovars living in Turkey.

After a long and bloody struggle for national self-determination Kosovo was saved by NATO from, an “ethnic cleansing”, or “genocide” you name it, Slobodan Milosevic committed in 1999. Former Finnish President Marti Ahtisaari, as one of the faithful proponents of Turkey in its EU bid, prepared a road map for the independence of Kosovo

And on Sunday, Feb. 17, Prime Minister Hashim Tachi in Mitrovica proclaimed Kosovo an independent and sovereign state during an emergency session in parliament.

With his young fit-body like a basketball player rather than a politician, former leader of the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) that just over 10 years ago began an armed rebellion against Serbian domination, Tashi paid tribute to İbrahim Rugova, the first president of Kosovo that's not recognized by the international community, and received applause. He died at 60 of cancer four years ago, Rugova with a red scarf always wrapped around the neck has been remembered for his determination to bring independence to Kosovo.

In his speech, Tachi first extended thanks to the United States, EU and NATO then said he sees the future of Kosovo in Europe due to its historic ties and geographic location. Kosovo will claim its place in the “family of Euro-Atlantic democracy,” added Tachi, emphasizing the target of Kosovo is to become a EU member. Besides, he struck a note of reconciliation and pledged to protect the rights of the Serbian minority. Therefore, Kosovo was born as a “democratic, multi-national and pluralist” baby.

The new baby of Europe was born on Feb. 17, and Turkey now has a baby brother in the Balkans, in southeastern Europe.

Fear from the Serbs:

The delay in declaration of independence as a matter of fact was because of the fears that Russia-backed Serbs might turn violent again.

Serbia sees Kosovo as the cradle of its own “civilization,” whatever it means. Serbs do not recognize Kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence and insist that the territory belongs to Serbia. However the pro-EU Boris Tadic winning the elections a short while ago against his “fascist-nationalist” rival announced that although Serbia does not recognize Kosovo they will not engage in armed struggle to abrogate the independence of Kosovars. It was then the baby was to be delivered. If Kosovo becomes free, Abkhazia and South Ossetia will split from Georgia, Russian President Vladimir Putin threatened, but no one bought this!

What did the nearly two million ethnic Albanians, forming 93 percent of the total population in Kosovo, rely on to proclaim sovereignty, despite the objections of roughly 100,000 Serbs, Russia and several members of the EU, such as Greece, Greek Cyprus, Bulgaria, Romania, Slovakia and Spain?

The answer is that the United States and rest of EU countries, particularly Britain, Germany, France and Italy, promised to recognize Kosovo as an independent state.

Following the proclamation of this “unilateral independence,” the majority of the international community will recognize Kosovo. The country will firmly take its place on the map, among the legitimate “independent sovereign states” after becoming a member in the United Nations.

In addition to Albania in the Balkans, a new Albanian state has emerged, right next to Macedonia with a population of over 30 percent ethnic Albanians. The birth of Kosovo as a sovereign state has inevitably brought up an array of problems. For instance, according to the Irish movie star Sean Connery of “James Bond” films, it is impossible for Scotland to be an unsuccessful independent state, and the country of the “Brave Heart,” William Wallace, that fought for independence from the Brits centuries ago should come forward as a sovereign state independent from the United Kingdom today.

Likewise, separation of Basques from Spain and even pro-independence State of Vermont, which had joined the 14-state union 15 years after the Declaration of Independence in 1791 in the United States of America, might claim independence, why not?

What about Trans-Dnyester with a predominantly Russian population in Moldova? The Palestinians, on top, have not even had an independent state yet.

The Turkish Republic of northern Cyprus (TRNC), which Putin used as an excuse to curb independence of Kosovo, and even Kashmir, why shouldn't they become free sovereign states?

But somehow the case is otherwise. History doesn't make sense at times. Conditions, power balances and a zillion different factors play a role in it. States are the foundations of the United Nations. And the EU depends on states as well. It will be so. New states will emerge and some will disappear just like East Germany, says a British professor.

The last ring of Yugoslavia:

As Tachi says, Kosovo was the last ring of the Former Yugoslavia. That is to say, Kosovo needs to be considered in the frame of the “special terms” of the post-Cold War era. Since Kosovo sets the target as membership in the EU, other former pieces of the former Yugoslavia residing in the West Balkans, i.e. Serbia, Macedonia, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Albania, along with Kosovo, will be united under the roof of the enlarged European “Union” in the future; just like the Czech Republic and Slovakia, following a divorce, are being united again in the EU.

As far as Turkey is concerned, we are pleased with Kosovo's declaration of independence. Turkey reads the emergence of this new state as welcoming a new baby brother to the family. Its existence “somewhat” but its life expectancy “firmly” depends on the EU. Kosovo will strengthen and facilitate Turkey's hand in its EU bid, too.

Even if there is no such reason, happiness of our Kosovo-origins citizens is our own happiness.

We welcome the birth of the new baby in Europe and baby brother of Turkey in Europe!

[DT.]

1389!!! And they call Piratis paranoid because he mentions 1571

[Kikapu]

A baby brother to Turkey, Kosovo born in Europe
Cengiz ÇANDAR
I left about 200 eminent figures, mostly Americans and Arabs of the Islamic World, including Madeleine Albright, Francis Fukuyama, Sandy Berger of the Hillary Clinton team, Susan Rice of the Barack Obama team downstairs and rushed upstairs to my room at the hotel. It was 5:00 p.m. Qatar time (Turkey is one hour ahead, Kosovo two hours behind). I knew in advance that the Kosovo parliament will convene for a declaration of independence during an emergency session. So I had to turn on the TV.

The day before, I had learned that, Foreign Minister Ali Babacan, just like Afghanistan President Hamid Kharzai, Albright and Zalmay Khalilzad, the former U.S. ambassador to Iraq, canceled a trip to Abu Dhabi and was rushing back to Turkey after he gave an address at the fifth “U.S.-Islamic World Forum” in Doha.

Recognizing Kosovo:

“We have to be in Ankara on Sunday. We'll convene in the afternoon and have to have talks in order to be one of the states recognizing the independence of Kosovo,” Babacan had said. Frankly I thought we were a bit late in doing so. It would've been more appropriate to recognize Kosovo not after but simultaneously with the United States or some of the leading countries of the European Union. After all, Kosovo has been part of us for centuries since the day it was taken over by Serbs yet won back by the Ottoman Sultan Murat Hüdavendigar I after the Battle of Kosovo in 1389.

In fact, we are so close with the Kosovars that population of Kosovars living in Turkey is said to be much more than those living in Kosovo.

Kosovo is the home country of Mehmet Akif Ersoy, writer of the Turkish national anthem, and many others. Turkey and Kosovo are like flesh and blood. Muslim Albanians in Kosovo are inseparable from the Kosovars living in Turkey.

After a long and bloody struggle for national self-determination Kosovo was saved by NATO from, an “ethnic cleansing”, or “genocide” you name it, Slobodan Milosevic committed in 1999. Former Finnish President Marti Ahtisaari, as one of the faithful proponents of Turkey in its EU bid, prepared a road map for the independence of Kosovo

And on Sunday, Feb. 17, Prime Minister Hashim Tachi in Mitrovica proclaimed Kosovo an independent and sovereign state during an emergency session in parliament.

With his young fit-body like a basketball player rather than a politician, former leader of the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) that just over 10 years ago began an armed rebellion against Serbian domination, Tashi paid tribute to İbrahim Rugova, the first president of Kosovo that's not recognized by the international community, and received applause. He died at 60 of cancer four years ago, Rugova with a red scarf always wrapped around the neck has been remembered for his determination to bring independence to Kosovo.

In his speech, Tachi first extended thanks to the United States, EU and NATO then said he sees the future of Kosovo in Europe due to its historic ties and geographic location. Kosovo will claim its place in the “family of Euro-Atlantic democracy,” added Tachi, emphasizing the target of Kosovo is to become a EU member. Besides, he struck a note of reconciliation and pledged to protect the rights of the Serbian minority. Therefore, Kosovo was born as a “democratic, multi-national and pluralist” baby.

The new baby of Europe was born on Feb. 17, and Turkey now has a baby brother in the Balkans, in southeastern Europe.

Fear from the Serbs:

The delay in declaration of independence as a matter of fact was because of the fears that Russia-backed Serbs might turn violent again.

Serbia sees Kosovo as the cradle of its own “civilization,” whatever it means. Serbs do not recognize Kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence and insist that the territory belongs to Serbia. However the pro-EU Boris Tadic winning the elections a short while ago against his “fascist-nationalist” rival announced that although Serbia does not recognize Kosovo they will not engage in armed struggle to abrogate the independence of Kosovars. It was then the baby was to be delivered. If Kosovo becomes free, Abkhazia and South Ossetia will split from Georgia, Russian President Vladimir Putin threatened, but no one bought this!

What did the nearly two million ethnic Albanians, forming 93 percent of the total population in Kosovo, rely on to proclaim sovereignty, despite the objections of roughly 100,000 Serbs, Russia and several members of the EU, such as Greece, Greek Cyprus, Bulgaria, Romania, Slovakia and Spain?

The answer is that the United States and rest of EU countries, particularly Britain, Germany, France and Italy, promised to recognize Kosovo as an independent state.

Following the proclamation of this “unilateral independence,” the majority of the international community will recognize Kosovo. The country will firmly take its place on the map, among the legitimate “independent sovereign states” after becoming a member in the United Nations.

In addition to Albania in the Balkans, a new Albanian state has emerged, right next to Macedonia with a population of over 30 percent ethnic Albanians. The birth of Kosovo as a sovereign state has inevitably brought up an array of problems. For instance, according to the Irish movie star Sean Connery of “James Bond” films, it is impossible for Scotland to be an unsuccessful independent state, and the country of the “Brave Heart,” William Wallace, that fought for independence from the Brits centuries ago should come forward as a sovereign state independent from the United Kingdom today.

Likewise, separation of Basques from Spain and even pro-independence State of Vermont, which had joined the 14-state union 15 years after the Declaration of Independence in 1791 in the United States of America, might claim independence, why not?

What about Trans-Dnyester with a predominantly Russian population in Moldova? The Palestinians, on top, have not even had an independent state yet.

The Turkish Republic of northern Cyprus (TRNC), which Putin used as an excuse to curb independence of Kosovo, and even Kashmir, why shouldn't they become free sovereign states?

But somehow the case is otherwise. History doesn't make sense at times. Conditions, power balances and a zillion different factors play a role in it. States are the foundations of the United Nations. And the EU depends on states as well. It will be so. New states will emerge and some will disappear just like East Germany, says a British professor.

The last ring of Yugoslavia:

As Tachi says, Kosovo was the last ring of the Former Yugoslavia. That is to say, Kosovo needs to be considered in the frame of the “special terms” of the post-Cold War era. Since Kosovo sets the target as membership in the EU, other former pieces of the former Yugoslavia residing in the West Balkans, i.e. Serbia, Macedonia, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Albania, along with Kosovo, will be united under the roof of the enlarged European “Union” in the future; just like the Czech Republic and Slovakia, following a divorce, are being united again in the EU.

As far as Turkey is concerned, we are pleased with Kosovo's declaration of independence. Turkey reads the emergence of this new state as welcoming a new baby brother to the family. Its existence “somewhat” but its life expectancy “firmly” depends on the EU. Kosovo will strengthen and facilitate Turkey's hand in its EU bid, too.

Even if there is no such reason, happiness of our Kosovo-origins citizens is our own happiness.

We welcome the birth of the new baby in Europe and baby brother of Turkey in Europe!

It was 5:00 p.m. Qatar time (Turkey is one hour ahead, Kosovo two hours behind).

It would be nice if the author, Cengiz ÇANDAR knew in what time zone he is in the world rather than writing "much about nothing with the above report" and name dropping like Madeline "Halfbright" and Sandy Berger, two of the worse people to have served Bill Clinton. Even Bill Clinton made mistakes, and I'm not talking about Cuban Cigars and Monika Lewinsky under his desk in the "Oral" office trying out her new "knee pads". So, according to this world travelling genius, the time zone difference between Turkey and "Kosovo" is 3 hours.!!!

But it get worse (better) with this statement.

For instance, according to the Irish movie star Sean Connery of “James Bond” films

Sean Connery, the Irishman !!!.

That was enough for me to throw the rest of his reasoning's into the trash can for Turkey's support for yet, another "illegal state" or was it an "illegitimate baby".

[GreekForumer]

This is where you missed the point all along. It is plain as day that this Kossovo thing is preparing the ground for a big, regional conflict. People who opposed the independence move wanted to avoid this conflict. Now it is coming and there is not much that can be done to avoid it.

From an interesting article....

A Saga of Injustice and Hypocrisy

The Absurdity of "Independent" Kosovo

By GEORGE SZAMUELY

The West's entire approach to Kosovo has been marked by sordid dishonesty and bad faith, supporting national self-determination and the right to secession in one place and territorial integrity in another, cheering on ethnic cleansing by one ethnic group and demanding war crimes trials for another, trumpeting the virtues of majority rule when it's convenient to do so and threatening to impose sanctions and penalties on majorities when that's convenient. For the Americans, Kosovo is nothing more than the hinterland of a giant military base, a key presence in the eastern Mediterranean should Greece or Turkey prove unreliable. As for the duly grateful Albanians, they are expected to repay their benefactors by agreeing to be cannon fodder in future imperial wars.

http://www.counterpunch.org/szamuely02152008.html