Cyprus-Forum.com

[Expatkiwi]

Piratis and Bananiot, thank you for an interesting debate. If I was in Cyprus, although I ascribe to the communist ideologies, I agree with Piratis that in terms of ability to work effectively on the Cypro I, too would vote Papadopoulos. Cyprus is an independent Island nation and needs to be unified as such with all its people having equal rights and sharing equally in the opportunities poresented by this great island nation.

Te problem though is that you are talking about Cyprus, not La-La Land. There are people from both sides who are not going to let that happen. The ethnic emnities are pretty deep and not likely to disappear.

[humanist]

kiwi

Te problem though is that you are talking about Cyprus, not La-La Land. There are people from both sides who are not going to let that happen. The ethnic emnities are pretty deep and not likely to disappear.

you are very right in saying that and you are very correct about the ethnic emnities being deep, however the willingness on both sides is not there, dare i say less so among the TC comunity and I would like to say not all TC community but a very small powerful minority.

In my recent trip to Cyprus I visited the occupied area and met an amzing TC friend whom I become very fond off and trusting to tell me the truth and he shared some views that i trust be true.

they were around inequalities of land home distribution among settlers & TC's
Talat's own ego and gains
TC administration's inability to stand up to the occupying force
TC willingness to move toward a unified Cyprus
TC fear of independence of the so called trnc and annexation to Turkey
finally and more crucial for him was the fact that settlers now are a majority and TC's are fastly becoming by vast porportions a minority, this is largerly of the RoC's position in granting RoC ID and passports to TC's who use it to immigrate within EU

[Nikitas]

When in doubt go back to basics.

THe basics here are clear- Turkey wants to dissolve the RoC as a national entity. It wants control over the whole island through the manipulation of the TC community directly or through the mechanism of the naturalised settlers. Any plan which includes elements of the above is in the long term the death warrant of GCs on Cyprus.

The fact that the above has not happened yet is due solely to people like Papadopoulos who have the survival of GCs on the island as a firm priority.

The test of any proposal is whether it avoids the long term plans of Turkey to control the whole island and eventually displace the GCs.

If you doubt Turkey's plans refer to the KIP plan of the 1950s, the establishment of TMT and the process of separation of the TC community from the other communities on the island. The plea that the TCs are always a special case, requiring special treatment in any constitutional settlement. Look at how those Turkish aims have been implemented over the years, while the Greek plans of Enosis and domination of the island have been abandoned.

Bananiot plays the card of the supposed influx of more settlers and of having a common frontier with Turkey in the future. That is EXACTLY WHAT WE HAVE NOW.

Wake up! We have had partition and effective annexation of the north by Turkey since August 1974. Nothing will change in the future as regards this. In all settlements proposed so far we were simply asked to rubber stamp these "facts". Well it is better to refuse and have a border with Turkey in the north of the island than give the whole island to Turkey through some self delusionary peace process that dissolves the only survival tool we have at our disposal as Cypriots- the Republic of Cyprus.

[Bananiot]

Nikitas wrote

Bananiot plays the card of the supposed influx of more settlers and of having a common frontier with Turkey in the future. That is EXACTLY WHAT WE HAVE NOW.

Wake up! We have had partition and effective annexation of the north by Turkey since August 1974. Nothing will change in the future as regards this. In all settlements proposed so far we were simply asked to rubber stamp these "facts". Well it is better to refuse and have a border with Turkey in the north of the island than give the whole island to Turkey through some self delusionary peace process that dissolves the only survival tool we have at our disposal as Cypriots- the Republic of Cyprus.

Supposed influx of more settlers! Try one million and counting, you ain't seen nothing yet! The majority of the Turkish Cypriots will come to the south to claim what is theirs according to the London-Zurich agreements. This is the scenario Papadopoulos is working on while we have rejected all plans that have been placed in front of us.

Papadopoulos can mislead some people with his "patriotic" rhetoric, even the communist orientated ones according to humanist. However, better informed people have seen him beg for the return of the Annan Plan on four occasions and recently for a fifth time as he attempts to resurrect it because he thinks this suits his election campaign. He was given four clear cut chances to reject it but he chose to appear as a staunch supporter of the plan and the procedure involved (he even accused Denktash of rejecting it) in order to appear as the messiah and saviour of Cyprus.

Tomorrow we shall see how far ahead Cypriots can see.

[Kifeas]

Nikitas wrote

Bananiot plays the card of the supposed influx of more settlers and of having a common frontier with Turkey in the future. That is EXACTLY WHAT WE HAVE NOW.

Wake up! We have had partition and effective annexation of the north by Turkey since August 1974. Nothing will change in the future as regards this. In all settlements proposed so far we were simply asked to rubber stamp these "facts". Well it is better to refuse and have a border with Turkey in the north of the island than give the whole island to Turkey through some self delusionary peace process that dissolves the only survival tool we have at our disposal as Cypriots- the Republic of Cyprus.

Supposed influx of more settlers! Try one million and counting, you ain't seen nothing yet! The majority of the Turkish Cypriots will come to the south to claim what is theirs according to the London-Zurich agreements. This is the scenario Papadopoulos is working on while we have rejected all plans that have been placed in front of us.

Papadopoulos can mislead some people with his "patriotic" rhetoric, even the communist orientated ones according to humanist. However, better informed people have seen him beg for the return of the Annan Plan on four occasions and recently for a fifth time as he attempts to resurrect it because he thinks this suits his election campaign. He was given four clear cut chances to reject it but he chose to appear as a staunch supporter of the plan and the procedure involved (he even accused Denktash of rejecting it) in order to appear as the messiah and saviour of Cyprus.

Tomorrow we shall see how far ahead Cypriots can see.

What a bunch of nonsense you are talking about! Are you for real???

[Bananiot]

Hello Kifeas. So, have you decided? What is it to be? Bloodshed or partition?

[zan]

When in doubt go back to basics.

THe basics here are clear- Turkey wants to dissolve the RoC as a national entity. It wants control over the whole island through the manipulation of the TC community directly or through the mechanism of the naturalised settlers. Any plan which includes elements of the above is in the long term the death warrant of GCs on Cyprus.

The fact that the above has not happened yet is due solely to people like Papadopoulos who have the survival of GCs on the island as a firm priority.

The test of any proposal is whether it avoids the long term plans of Turkey to control the whole island and eventually displace the GCs.

If you doubt Turkey's plans refer to the KIP plan of the 1950s, the establishment of TMT and the process of separation of the TC community from the other communities on the island. The plea that the TCs are always a special case, requiring special treatment in any constitutional settlement. Look at how those Turkish aims have been implemented over the years, while the Greek plans of Enosis and domination of the island have been abandoned.

Bananiot plays the card of the supposed influx of more settlers and of having a common frontier with Turkey in the future. That is EXACTLY WHAT WE HAVE NOW.

Wake up! We have had partition and effective annexation of the north by Turkey since August 1974. Nothing will change in the future as regards this. In all settlements proposed so far we were simply asked to rubber stamp these "facts". Well it is better to refuse and have a border with Turkey in the north of the island than give the whole island to Turkey through some self delusionary peace process that dissolves the only survival tool we have at our disposal as Cypriots- the Republic of Cyprus.

So on this basis we can expect the same from Greece then Nikitas.....

[Nikitas]

"Supposed influx of more settlers! Try one million and counting, you ain't seen nothing yet! The majority of the Turkish Cypriots will come to the south to claim what is theirs according to the London-Zurich agreements."

I have not the slightest problem with that. Neither should any other Cypriot. We never promoted the south as a GC only haven. In fact if ALL TCs come south then the occupation of the north will be seen for what it is-occupation and colonisation.

Your scenario Bananiot is not as nightmarish as you make it sound, the only unfortunate thing about it is that it will not happen.

[Piratis]

Nikitas wrote

Bananiot plays the card of the supposed influx of more settlers and of having a common frontier with Turkey in the future. That is EXACTLY WHAT WE HAVE NOW.

Wake up! We have had partition and effective annexation of the north by Turkey since August 1974. Nothing will change in the future as regards this. In all settlements proposed so far we were simply asked to rubber stamp these "facts". Well it is better to refuse and have a border with Turkey in the north of the island than give the whole island to Turkey through some self delusionary peace process that dissolves the only survival tool we have at our disposal as Cypriots- the Republic of Cyprus.

Supposed influx of more settlers! Try one million and counting, you ain't seen nothing yet! The majority of the Turkish Cypriots will come to the south to claim what is theirs according to the London-Zurich agreements. This is the scenario Papadopoulos is working on while we have rejected all plans that have been placed in front of us.

Papadopoulos can mislead some people with his "patriotic" rhetoric, even the communist orientated ones according to humanist. However, better informed people have seen him beg for the return of the Annan Plan on four occasions and recently for a fifth time as he attempts to resurrect it because he thinks this suits his election campaign. He was given four clear cut chances to reject it but he chose to appear as a staunch supporter of the plan and the procedure involved (he even accused Denktash of rejecting it) in order to appear as the messiah and saviour of Cyprus.

Tomorrow we shall see how far ahead Cypriots can see.

They can bring 10 million Settlers, and all of them will be illegal and none of them will be in the neighborhoods we live.

If we accept what you say then most of those Settlers will be able to stay legally in Cyprus, and move anywhere in Cyprus they want. Furthermore the Turks will control the north Cyprus, so they can continue bringing as many of them as they want. What will it stop them? Us? We will have no control over north Cyprus. The laws and agreements will stop them? When did the Turks cared about legality and agreements and they will care now?

The only solution is one that pushes Turkey out of Cyprus and gives to Cypriots the control of their own country so they can protect it. If we are going to have Turkey in Cyprus, then 100 times better to have them isolated in just 1/3rd of the island, than controlling the whole of it.

[zan]

Nikitas wrote

Bananiot plays the card of the supposed influx of more settlers and of having a common frontier with Turkey in the future. That is EXACTLY WHAT WE HAVE NOW.

Wake up! We have had partition and effective annexation of the north by Turkey since August 1974. Nothing will change in the future as regards this. In all settlements proposed so far we were simply asked to rubber stamp these "facts". Well it is better to refuse and have a border with Turkey in the north of the island than give the whole island to Turkey through some self delusionary peace process that dissolves the only survival tool we have at our disposal as Cypriots- the Republic of Cyprus.

Supposed influx of more settlers! Try one million and counting, you ain't seen nothing yet! The majority of the Turkish Cypriots will come to the south to claim what is theirs according to the London-Zurich agreements. This is the scenario Papadopoulos is working on while we have rejected all plans that have been placed in front of us.

Papadopoulos can mislead some people with his "patriotic" rhetoric, even the communist orientated ones according to humanist. However, better informed people have seen him beg for the return of the Annan Plan on four occasions and recently for a fifth time as he attempts to resurrect it because he thinks this suits his election campaign. He was given four clear cut chances to reject it but he chose to appear as a staunch supporter of the plan and the procedure involved (he even accused Denktash of rejecting it) in order to appear as the messiah and saviour of Cyprus.

Tomorrow we shall see how far ahead Cypriots can see.

They can bring 10 million Settlers, and all of them will be illegal and none of them will be in the neighborhoods we live.

If we accept what you say then most of those Settlers will be able to stay legally in Cyprus, and move anywhere in Cyprus they want. Furthermore the Turks will control the north Cyprus, so they can continue bringing as many of them as they want. What will it stop them? Us? We will have no control over north Cyprus. The laws and agreements will stop them? When did the Turks cared about legality and agreements and they will care now?

The only solution is one that pushes Turkey out of Cyprus and gives to Cypriots the control of their own country so they can protect it. If we are going to have Turkey in Cyprus, then 100 times better to have them isolated in just 1/3rd of the island, than controlling the whole of it.

Where does it say in the A Plan that that will be allowed to happen then