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Are the KKTC and Abkhazia next?

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Re: Are the KKTC and Abkhazia next?

Postby halil » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:26 pm

halil wrote:Some European countries with regions that have declared their independence unilaterally are holding presidential elections back to back: Georgia (Abkhazia), Serbia (Kosovo), Greek Cyprus (Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, KKTC), Armenia and Azerbaijan (Nagorno-Karabakh).
In the Georgian elections held on Jan. 5, Mikhail Saakashvili reclaimed his presidency. In Serbia, the second round of the presidential elections was held on Feb. 3 and Boris Tadic won. Both leaders view integration into the European-Atlantic world positively. Greek Cyprus will hold its presidential elections on Feb. 17. The presidential elections in Armenia will be held on Feb. 19 and those of Azerbaijan will be on Oct. 15. Kosovo is expected to declare its independence unilaterally before the EU foreign ministers meeting on Feb. 18.
Lawyers from the US and the EU, while defending the independence of Kosovo, point to the following differences between Serbia and Kosovo: Since the NATO bombardment in 1999, the Belgrade government has had no influence or sanctions on Kosovo. Kosovo has its own parliament and government. It holds elections freely. It also has an independent army, security forces and a flag as well as a different currency. However, the reasons cited as imperative for independence hold true also for the KKTC and Abkhazia. Therefore, while Turkey and the KKTC view Kosovo's independence positively, Greece and Greek Cyprus have a negative view, despite the generally positive atmosphere in the EU toward Kosovo's independence.

If the Kremlin fails to prevent Kosovo's independence, it may well bring Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Transdinyester (Pridnestrovye) and Nagorno-Karabakh to the negotiating table at the UN Security Council. It seems that the likely missile attack the United States planned to launch against Iran's nuclear facilities will also be at the negotiating table in question. We have to wonder whether the Russian Federation will come to terms with the European-Atlantic world regarding the principle of "Velvet Separation" in Kosovo, Abkhazia and the KKTC. That is, will the "Czechoslovakia" solution be possible? Will it really be possible for both pairs of communities -- KKTC-Greek Cyprus and Abkhazia-Georgia -- to officially divorce first and then to be reunited under the EU roof but in different rooms?

Abkhazia has been strengthening its diplomatic ties with countries still not recognized by the United Nations, including the KKTC. The first visit in this context was made by Abkhazia Deputy Foreign Minister Maxim Gvincija to the KKTC between Jan. 5 and 8. In this way, the relations between the KKTC and Abkhazia were initiated at the official level. The target is to open an Abkhazian consulate there and then to establish diplomatic relations with Taiwan and Somaliland, an African state bordered by Djibouti, Ethiopia and Somali that declared its de facto independence from Somalia in 1991.

Washington's goal is to finalize Kosovo's process of independence prior to NATO's Bucharest summit between April 2 and 4. The United States may try to prevent any resentment from Serbia and Georgia toward Kosovo and Abkhazia by expediting their process of integration into the European-Atlantic world. In fact, despite German and French opposition, the United States wants them to be a part of the Membership Action Plan (MAP), which opened NATO's doors for Georgia. In addition, once the EU initiates cooperation on issues such as political dialogue, trade, visa exemption and education, Serbia may well make headway on becoming a candidate member. On the other hand, it still remains a surprise what sort of gift will be presented to Greek Cyprus as an incentive for divorcing the KKTC.

If these scenarios don't take place, there may be alternative ones of war. Russia may recognize South Ossetia and Abkhazia's independence. Following this decision by Moscow, Armenia may take action to recognize Nagorno-Karabakh. This in turn might cause oil-rich İlham Aliyev to wage war on Armenia in order to make it into the history books and to remain president until his death. This scenario could subsequently cause Saakashvili to use force against Abkhazia and South Ossetia in order to have the doors of NATO and EU opened more quickly. Consequently, 2008 will be a year when deadlocks over de facto independent European states will not be a solution.
HASAN KANBOLAT [email protected]

12.02.2008


Kosovo stance ‘driven by principle rather than fear of a precedent’
By Jean Christou

CYPRUS’ opposition to a unilateral declaration of independence by Kosovo is driven by principle rather than fear that it would set a precedent for the ‘TRNC’, Foreign Minister Erato Kozakou-Marcoullis said yesterday.

The Serbian province of Kosovo, which is mainly populated by ethnic Albanians, is expected to declare independence on Sunday under fierce opposition from Serbia and Russia.

According to a Reuters report between 20 and 22 EU governments are likely to recognise Kosovo rapidly, but at least five – Cyprus, Greece, Romania, Slovakia and Spain – are not expected to recognise the new state initially, diplomats said.

Cyprus is likely to be most vehemently opposed because of the implications it might have on the breakaway Turkish Cypriot administration in the north, which declared itself a state in 1983 but is not recognised by any other country except Turkey.

Speaking yesterday on her departure for Malta to attend a ministerial meeting between the EU and the Arab League, Marcoullis said the UN had given a strong response to any notion of recognition of the ‘TRNC’.

“Our position [on Kosovo] is based on principles and not on fear that a unilateral declaration of independence could set a precedent for the recognition of the occupation regime,” she said, adding that Cyprus would “never recognise” any unilateral declaration that was outside of a UN framework.

"This position has been accepted by our EU partners. We are not on our own, there are other countries which will not recognise the unilateral declaration of independence," she said.

Despite Nicosia’s certainty that Kosovo would not set a precedent for the north, the issue is not so clear from a foreign perspective.

Sergei Ivanov, Russia's first deputy prime minister, has warned that the Kosovo situation would open a Pandora's Box.

"This problem will cause a domino reaction in the whole region," he said, specifically mentioning the Turkish Cypriot breakaway state. “Other disputed regions, such as the north of Cyprus, might seek similar treatment.

"Let's be logical about this: If NATO and the EU countries recognise Kosovo's independence, they will have to recognise north Cyprus,” Ivanov said.

Responding to this, Marcoullis said Cyprus was covered by UN Security Council resolutions that were binding for the international community.
“There is no issue of deviating from Security Council resolutions,” she said.

EU ministers are expected to adopt a general statement on Kosovo's future next Monday, taking note of the declaration of independence, calling for stability and leaving it to each member state to decide on recognition, diplomats told Reuters.

DISY leader Nicos Anastassides, commenting on the issue yesterday, said his party had warned that the international climate did not encourage continuing impasses such as that of Cyprus.

He said the stagnation of the Cyprus issue could bring international and European partners to the conclusion that the only solution left in Cyprus was partition.



Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2008
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Postby BC Numismatics » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:29 pm

Halil,the case of Kosovo's independence is a legitimate one,as is the independence of both Somaliland & Taiwan.The 'TRNC' IS NOT a legitimate country at all!

Aidan.
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Postby alexISS » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:42 pm

BC Numismatics wrote:AlexISS,one of them was serving up in Kyrenia when his section got attacked.The section commander fired back in self-defence.It turned out that he had shot an EOKA terrorist,who deservedly got put down.

Considering the facts that the British were an occupying force and the EOKA "terrorists" were fighting for independence, one could say it's the dead British soldiers that got what they deserved

BC Numismatics wrote:In war,soldiers & civilians die.There were faults on both sides.

The problem is, there weren't many British civilians and there weren't many Cypriot soldiers


BC Numismatics wrote:The existence of the Sovereign Base Areas has been extremely beneficial to the Cypriot economy.If there were no S.B.A.s,then the Cypriot economy would have gone onto its knees.

Aidan.


What would be beneficial to the Cypriot economy is the payment of all those years' rent that the UK owes. What would be even more beneficial would be the return of the base areas, they are worth many times the military personell's contribution.
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Postby Nikitas » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:44 pm

When, not if, Kossovo and Albania declare their union will Serbia be justified in making war on them both? Will "Macedonia" be also justified in joining in to prevent its Albanians from pressing for secession? When the shit hits the fan big time will anyone of the nations pressing for Kossovo independence today shoulder their responsibility for creating the mess?
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Postby Eric dayi » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:47 pm

miltiades wrote:
Eric dayi wrote:
On the other hand, it still remains a surprise what sort of gift will be presented to Greek Cyprus as an incentive for divorcing the KKTC.


They will offer the GCs and the Greeks to cut the island at the Green Line, move it close to Greece and declare ENOSIS.

Bingo, another Greek island, the Greeks and Gcs are happy bunnies and can stop whinging, whining, crying buckets full and stomping their feet like spoiled little brats. Well, they might stop, if they don't find something else to whinge, whine, cry buckets full and stomp their feet like spoiled little brats about.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

YOU NEVER GET IT ERICO DO YOU THICKO.
ENOSIS IS DEAD AND BURIED , WE ARE CYPRIOTS NOT GREEKS .
I told you before that Cyprus belongs to the Cypriots , people like you WHO FLY FOREIGN FLAGS ARE FOREIGNERS .
How do you conclude that a solution will be found with prats like you around mate !


Not surprising at all that a senile old fool like you is forgetting one thing, solution came about in the forum of partition in 1974 and your so-called "Goverenment" is working very hard to keep it at that. The only problem is that they have to find a way to sell it to you without being lynched by idiots like yourself who disguise try very hard to hide their true feelings for ENOSIS as "democratic solution".

Your biggest problem is though that you can't find anyone who believes your f**king lies any more.

You are a Greek Cypriot and I am a Turkish Cypriot, you are a frustrated
senile old fool and very pissed off because there is nothing you can do to change this fact. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby BC Numismatics » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:51 pm

alexISS wrote:
BC Numismatics wrote:AlexISS,one of them was serving up in Kyrenia when his section got attacked.The section commander fired back in self-defence.It turned out that he had shot an EOKA terrorist,who deservedly got put down.

Considering the facts that the British were an occupying force and the EOKA "terrorists" were fighting for independence, one could say it's the dead British soldiers that got what they deserved

BC Numismatics wrote:In war,soldiers & civilians die.There were faults on both sides.

The problem is, there weren't many British civilians and there weren't many Cypriot soldiers


BC Numismatics wrote:The existence of the Sovereign Base Areas has been extremely beneficial to the Cypriot economy.If there were no S.B.A.s,then the Cypriot economy would have gone onto its knees.

Aidan.


What would be beneficial to the Cypriot economy is the payment of all those years' rent that the UK owes. What would be even more beneficial would be the return of the base areas, they are worth many times the military personell's contribution.


AlexISS,the British Army was NOT an occupying force,as Cyprus was legally a British colony right up until independence.

EOKA WERE terrorists,as it was led by a scumbag called Nikos Sampson & a scumbag called George Grivas,who also led EOKA-B as well!

The S.B.A.s are legally established under the terms of the 1959 Independence Agreement.In the event of a reunification of Cyprus,there would be a cession of some territory,but the S.B.A.s would still exist.

Aidan.
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Postby alexISS » Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:13 pm

BC Numismatics wrote:AlexISS,the British Army was NOT an occupying force,as Cyprus was legally a British colony right up until independence.

EOKA WERE terrorists,as it was led by a scumbag called Nikos Sampson & a scumbag called George Grivas,who also led EOKA-B as well!

The S.B.A.s are legally established under the terms of the 1959 Independence Agreement.In the event of a reunification of Cyprus,there would be a cession of some territory,but the S.B.A.s would still exist.

Aidan.


Cyprus was "legally" a British colony? How come? Was it because they paid Turkey, the former "legal" owner of the island, to buy "colonization" rights? Cyprus was not an uninhabited island for the Brits to "colonize". As for the future of the bases, their status can and will be renegotiated once a unified Cypriot government emerges, the Brits know that and that's why they've been trying so hard to keep the island divided all these years
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Postby kurupetos » Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:16 pm

I want to declare my house an independent state? Can I do that?
8) :lol:
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Postby BC Numismatics » Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:31 pm

alexISS wrote:
BC Numismatics wrote:AlexISS,the British Army was NOT an occupying force,as Cyprus was legally a British colony right up until independence.

EOKA WERE terrorists,as it was led by a scumbag called Nikos Sampson & a scumbag called George Grivas,who also led EOKA-B as well!

The S.B.A.s are legally established under the terms of the 1959 Independence Agreement.In the event of a reunification of Cyprus,there would be a cession of some territory,but the S.B.A.s would still exist.

Aidan.


Cyprus was "legally" a British colony? How come? Was it because they paid Turkey, the former "legal" owner of the island, to buy "colonization" rights? Cyprus was not an uninhabited island for the Brits to "colonize". As for the future of the bases, their status can and will be renegotiated once a unified Cypriot government emerges, the Brits know that and that's why they've been trying so hard to keep the island divided all these years


AlexISS,Cyprus became a British colony,as Turkey was bankrupt & had misruled it.It wasn't the British who have tried to keep the Cypriots divided.That responsibility lies with both Greece & Turkey,who ARE the problem!

The British were the best rulers of Cyprus prior to independence.If it hadn't been for Great Britain,then there wouldn't even be a country called Cyprus.

Aidan.
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Postby alexISS » Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:38 pm

I never thought I'd say this, but GetReal! was right :shock:
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