Cyprus-Forum.com

[Andrik]

Only a backward caveman would do what you are suggesting and kill his child, i can accept some would not talk to them or go to the wedding for a while they would make them uncomfortable but once children come onto the scene almost always these people start losing their inhibitations and accept the situation, besides that we are all human beings and nationalism was invented so the few could control the masses hence the divide and conquer syndrome.
In generations to come those who are nationalists will find themselves very isolated as all borders are coming down around the world albeit slowley but still happening.

I didnt say that they are going to kill their children.

[uzan]

yes may be you are right in Australia they marry to but mixed marriages don't work and never will be.You are wrong we never mixed inthe past.What hereditry diseases you are talking about?

Is this really worth justifying a response? You have heard of Thalassimia I presume. Of course quite a proportion of TC's were actually indigenous greeks that converted to Islam during Ottoman rule but I guess you are too proud to accept that.


Yes of course I heard of Thalassimina and not only we cpriot has India, Italy and Kenya has this ext.Why dont you go and look history books where you come and turks come from .Yes I AM PROUD AND I KNOW MY FAMILY TREE ASWELL. I AM THE OTTOMAN TURK.




But I am a GC so I MUST be wrong.YES you are wrong.

This is one funny thread ...

Makes me laugh all the time!

[-mikkie2-]

Uzan,

You are THE Ottoman Turk. Boy, you must be proud.

I don't need to take history lessons from you.

At least I am open minded and not blinded by racism.

[uzan]

Uzan,

You are THE Ottoman Turk. Boy, you must be proud.

I don't need to take history lessons from you.

At least I am open minded and not blinded by racism.

I tell you something my boy(iam older than you)I am not recist when i come to cyprus iwould like to see you and give copy of my book and you can see who is recist.My first girl friend was greek,i went bed with her first time to. In varosa we used to go cinema and picked greek girls to,they didn't know we are turkish because we used to talk geerek better than most of you

[-mikkie2-]

If that is the case Uzan why do you show such dislike for GC's? Your comments have been racist and you have shown disregard for other people views.

[Kifeas]

Mikkie and others,

Do not become surprised or annoyed when you are confronted by Turkish Cypriots on issues relating to their national identity and their complete denial of any claim towards their ancestry. Nor be surprised or annoyed by their interpretation of what their rights must be in relation to concepts such as democracy and pluralism, and the way they manipulate them under concepts such as “political equality” etc.

Unfortunately, Turkish Cypriots have been brought up and educated under the shadow and conditioning of the Kemalist ideology. This ideology, which unfortunately is going to perpetuate in Cyprus since it has been secured even in the constitution of the TC state, is purely nationalistic, to say the least. They didn’t even consider for a second before subscribing to it, that within the TCCS there are meant to live a considerable number of Greek Cypriots. So much is the concern and regard of this ideology towards the rights of other people with different cultural backgrounds.

Kemalism has been an ideology, a tool I should better say, aiming to build from scratch a new nation, the “Turkish” in particular. Its aim is to completely level down any concept of alternative identity other than the Turkish. Any means towards the achievement of this aim are perfectly justified and can take any form, including adoption of relevant laws, creative history education, ceremonies such as the worshipping of the flag, torturing, censorship, murders, etc.

The Turkish (Kemalist) perspective on pluralism is "Happy is he who call himself a Turk" or "One Turk equals the whole world". These chauvinistic phrases are written in every public place, especially in schools and on the tops of mountains and hills. Pupils, from elementary age to high school level, are forced to read these racist phrases every morning.

One may rightfully argue that Greek Cypriots have similar patents of behaviour regarding issues relating to national origin, intermarriages, Greek-ness, etc. However, GCs make every attempt not to institutionalise such notions. Never the less, the majority of GCs have come up to a point at which they are willing and to a great extend ready, to put their love for Cyprus one step above their Hellenic sentiments. Unfortunately, the majority of TCs have not surpassed this point. It seems to me that their Turkishness is still placed much higher than their love for Cyprus. Therefore, we should not be surprised when we get the reactions we get from Turkish Cypriots when we raise issues such as Cypriotism, mixed marriages, racial (national) origins, etc. Nor be surprised, in view of the above paragraph, by their insistence on political equality along ethnic lines.

(Editing due to spelling mistakes)

[metecyp]

Unfortunately, the majority of TCs have not surpassed this point. It seems to me that their Turkishness is still placed much higher than their love for Cyprus

This is simply not true. You're right that most TCs do not consider themselves just Cypriot and also just Turkish. We are Turkish Cypriots and we try to distinguish ourselves in a crowd of Turks as Turkish Cypriots rather than Turks because we're different. At the same time, there's no such nation as Cypriot nation. TCs and GCs have common Cypriot culture which might turn into a Cypriot nation in the future but at the moment there's no Cypriot nation.

As for the love of Cyprus, if TCs loved thier Turkishness more than Cyprus, they would simply go to Turkey and experience unlimited Turkishness. But as you know, we're trying to hold on to this island despite major difficulties over the years. Doesn't that show you that we indeed love our country?

[insan]

One may rightfully argue that Greek Cypriots have similar patents of behaviour regarding issues relating to national origin, intermarriages, Greek-ness, etc. However, GCs make every attempt not to institutionalise such notions.

GCs make every attempt not to institutionalize such notions? How? On history text books? By celebrating EOKA-DAY? By waving Greek flags all around South? By being in full cooperation with Greece for the Hellenic interests? By lobbying propaganda together with Kurds and Armenians against Turkey? After all, you talk about Cypriotism and majority rule? Do you think we are little kids not aware the other side of the medallion? TC stance against Hellenistic approaches has aroused from irredentist, nationalist, terrorist movements and actions of Hellenes not Kemalism. It's nothing to do with Kemalism. Influence of Kemalism might be true for a teenager TC but not for an adult.

Even I can comfortably say that the nationalistic, ethnic notions of GC community is much stronger than TC community.

Hellenization of GC community was started in 1830s. Turkification of TCs started in 1920s. Almost 100 years later.

[insan]

The new Greek-Cypriot nationalism continues to thrive on the symbolic dominance traditionally associated with nationalist ideology, stressing, among other issues, the inherent qualities (and superiority) of Greek culture, the '3000-year-old history of the Greeks of Cyprus', the value of Greek education, and 'the Hellenochristian ideals' which have imbued Western civilization. As is the case with mainland Greek nationalism (Mouzells 1994, 1995; Panagiotakis 1995), Greek-Cypriot nationalism views ancient Greek civilization as its own property and places particular emphasis on the idea of the historical continuity of the nation - a continuity which, it is believed, enables the Greeks to act as the most truthful interpreters and guardians of the heritage of Ancient Greek civilization. 'What we consider the greatest honour for thousands of years', we read in an ultra-nationalist newspaper, 'is that we belong to the most glorious nation of the earth' (I Machi, 12 September 1995, p. 3).

Concluding remarks The emphasis upon the 'Greekness' of Cyprus and the particularly illogical constructions that this orientation necessitates pose severe obstacles to accepting political cohabitation, in whatever form, with Turkish Cypriots. The resolution of the differences between the two communities is the sine qua non for the reunification of the island. But both before and after 1974, Greek-Cypriot nationalism entailed an organic unity of nationality and citizenship which neglects the independence of the two communities and stifles their functional competence. History, interpreted on the basis of nationalist principles, conjures images of eternal enemies and fundamentally irreconcilable differences. Given the existence of an analogous nationalist ideology among the Turkish Cypriots, as well as the strategic interests not only of Turkey but also of global powers, the reunification of the island appears to be a very remote possibility. Since a reunited Cyprus is presented as the first national priority of the Greeks of Cyprus, nationalism stifles rather than promotes the national interest. And this, if I may use nationalist terminology, precisely because the reunification of the island is the only settlement of the Cyprus conflict that can safeguard the survival of Cypriot Hellenism in its ancestral lands and thus restore the unity of its historical space.

Whereas no one can deny that Greek-Cypriot nationalism, both in the past and in the present, has had an independent appeal to considerable segments of the Greek-Cypriot population, often inspiring acts of self- sacrificial heroism, there can be little doubt that the consequences of the 'dialectic of intolerance' in which Greek-Cypriot nationalism has been inextricably engaged have been catastrophic for the island (Kitromilides 1979). The return of nationalism to the forefront of Greek-Cypriot ideological orthodoxy may be seen as an indication that the Greek-Cypriot community has been historically unable to go through any process of what we may call political maturation; such maturation would require that the Greek Cypriots view their past with a different sensibility, raise new questions, and come to terms with the present and future at minimal cost.

Caesar V. Mavratsas, "The ideological contest between Greek-Cypriot nationalism and Cypriotism 1974-1995: politics, social memory and identity," Ethnic and Racial Studies, v 20 no 4 (October 1997).

[insan]

Nevertheless, I should say one more thing that TC youth is much more aware of trendy youth movements than Kemalism. There are more than 1 million interpretation of Kemalism. Almost all Turkish descendants believe their own interpretation. If you ask one question to a TC or a Turkish descendant about Ataturk you'll get differnet answers and mostly superficial.