Cyprus-Forum.com

[utu]

The forum is showing that while there is a large sentiment for reunification, simply joining together two halves without addressing the cause for the separation in the first place is not likely to settle the problem. The Israeli-Palestinian problem is a good example of this. In the 1948 War of Independence, Jerusalem was divided between a Jewish West, and an Arab East. The Six Day War on 1967 rejoined the two halves into one city, but there is still - in the Arab East Jerusalem (or Al Quds, depending who you talk to) - a desire to break off.
With this example, lets look at Nicosia/Lefkosia/Lefkosa. If there is a forced settlement and the city's northern and southern sectors are rejoined at gunpoint, it would still leave basically two antagonistic halves.

Reconciliation must be the first goal if any attemp at forming a united Cypriot Republic is to succeed. But what kind of confidence building measures can be taken, given either sides' distrust of each other? The alternatives are not palatable.

[Nikitas]

Utu,

The similarities with the Israeli situation are superficial. We have no problem io identity. We are all Cypriots with similar cultural outlook, their division is much deeper.

The influx of settlers might change this cultural outlook in the future, but for now it holds.

Being realistic, we know that if a BBF solution comes about, there will be little cross "border" residence. In any case, in a place as small as Cyprus it is quite possible to live on one side and daily commute to your business or job on the other. This was the situation in urban areas in the past, long before the start of the conflict.

Now if you are talking about a reconciliation process as in South Africa, where the names of victims and perpetrators of crimes are revealed, we would all be surprised at the past of some otherwise respectable Cypriots on both sides of the ethnic divide.

[utu]

Utu,

The similarities with the Israeli situation are superficial. We have no problem io identity. We are all Cypriots with similar cultural outlook, their division is much deeper.

The influx of settlers might change this cultural outlook in the future, but for now it holds.

Being realistic, we know that if a BBF solution comes about, there will be little cross "border" residence. In any case, in a place as small as Cyprus it is quite possible to live on one side and daily commute to your business or job on the other. This was the situation in urban areas in the past, long before the start of the conflict.

Now if you are talking about a reconciliation process as in South Africa, where the names of victims and perpetrators of crimes are revealed, we would all be surprised at the past of some otherwise respectable Cypriots on both sides of the ethnic divide.

Yuo think that the South Africa model could be successfully applied to Cyprus?

[Nikitas]

Utu,

I am for the naming of the people who conceived and initiated the murders of Cypriots on both sides from the 50s and later. Whether these people are charged and tried is a tough decision, but they should be named and they should be made to tell how and by whom they were convinced to murder Cypriots.

The biggest benefit of such a process is to clear the Cyprus scene of all these "secrets". There are too many fucking secrets. Above all there is too much secret diplomacy for such a small place! Our leaders meet at the Ledra palace and then come out and spout cryptic statements like "we discussed sensitive aspects of the Cyprus issue, the talks were constructive". This is crap. Cyprus is too small and nothing stays secret and in any case we all know the topics that come under the heading Cyprus Issue.

We need to bust open this obsession with secrecy which in the end does nothing but give some peasants feelings of self importance. People need to know what is being discussed on their behalf and for their future.

[Nikitas]

Maybe we should start a forum where people can be described if not named, to avoid legal problems. It could be a start.

Investigations over the years have shown a pattern of what sort of people planned and what sort carried out the murders. The actual killers were people in their teens and early twenties. They were armed and guided by older people. Unfortunately it is easy to convince a 17 year old to do these things. When you talk to these people you find deep remorse or a self induced callousness and lots of embarassed laughter. Maybe that is one way to deal with their conscience.

[denizaksulu]

Utu,

I am for the naming of the people who conceived and initiated the murders of Cypriots on both sides from the 50s and later. Whether these people are charged and tried is a tough decision, but they should be named and they should be made to tell how and by whom they were convinced to murder Cypriots.

The biggest benefit of such a process is to clear the Cyprus scene of all these "secrets". There are too many fucking secrets. Above all there is too much secret diplomacy for such a small place! Our leaders meet at the Ledra palace and then come out and spout cryptic statements like "we discussed sensitive aspects of the Cyprus issue, the talks were constructive". This is crap. Cyprus is too small and nothing stays secret and in any case we all know the topics that come under the heading Cyprus Issue.

We need to bust open this obsession with secrecy which in the end does nothing but give some peasants feelings of self importance. People need to know what is being discussed on their behalf and for their future.

I am all for a reconciliation of the two communities. However for this to take place, as you say, there needs to be naming and shaming on both sides.. What is the likelyhood of this ever happening. Too many are in power and hence will not encourage any kind of reconciliation, as it is the only way they can protect their ill gotten fortunes. Maybe in a another generation, but then it will be too late. Our lovely island will remain 'divided' for the benefit of 'those'. Alas!

[Nikitas]

Deniz,

maybe naming and shaming will put these people in their place. We have been willing to be ruled by invisible hands for too long.

[denizaksulu]

Deniz,

maybe naming and shaming will put these people in their place. We have been willing to be ruled by invisible hands for too long.

Do those in the 'know' have the guts. Life is sweet.

[phoenix]

Northern Ireland is the closest analogy to the Cyprus Problem in my opinion.

The only means of re-unification that would work speedily is for the TCs to remove the Turks and go back to their original homes thus allowing the GCs to return to theirs.

This could take place in months.

The slower re-unification will come about when the EU forces Turkey to withdraw from EU properties ....

This will be initiated in the next few years culminating in withdrawal of Turkish troops in < / = 5 years.

[denizaksulu]

Deniz,

maybe naming and shaming will put these people in their place. We have been willing to be ruled by invisible hands for too long.

Do those in the 'know' have the guts. Life is sweet.

In addition, I would suggest that those in a position to name and shame are also they which are in power, and Cyprus is a tiny Island.

Nikitas, do you suggest a general pardon/amnesty for those we talk about?