Cyprus-Forum.com

[Agios Amvrosios]

"basically we (the Turkish Cypriots) should have passed the law adopted by the Greek Cypriots in the south. Instead, we loot the territory we occupy in the north since 1974. We brought over from Turkey more population (settlers) more numerous than our own population. First we loaned them Greek Cypriot properties and later we gave them title deeds, as if then property was their's. The one who have the most title deeds and collected the most applause was the party of Talat. Does this people (the Turkish Cypriots) like the sale off of its motherland. Instead of demanding an explanation from those who gave away as a gift this land to the people they brought from abroad, they rewarded those who did this by making them their rulers.

How many Turkish Cypriots agree with Levent's sentiment?

[insan]

It is true that there were looters among TC community that got more than what they left in South. It is also true that all political parties gave some plot of lands to young TCs to get their votes. It is true that after 1987 when Denktash was frustrated by Kyprianou's intansigence; the deeds given to settlers. Under normal circumstances it all seems stupid except the existence of some looters among TC community. TCs are human beings like all other human beings exist on planet earth. Thieves exist in all countries, nations and communities.

Giving some plot of GC lands to young TCs to build their homes and giving deeds to settlers developed as a consequence of the circumstances of North. If there had been no embargos and exchange of properties achieved; young TCs would be able to purchase land to build their homes. Settlers would be able to purchase land and build their homes. Furthermore the pure TC population of North would have been no less than 250.000. Less number of TCs would have migrated and therfore less number of settlers would have been able to come to North. More number of TCs would have returned abroad to their homeland.

Nevertheless, settlers issue exploited by Eroglu for political purposes after 1987. Until 1987, settlers had no voting rights. Afterwards settlers were given citizenship by naturalization; Eroglu started to exploit the settlers for political purposes in order to keep his party in power.


Now you answer me Pantelis. Did some GCs loot the TC properties when TC fled to enclaves? Did some GCs loot TC properties afterwards 1974? Assume it was GC community under embargoes in South and substantial amount of land and properties in South belonged to TCs. Would the situation in South be any different than the current situation in North? You know the answers of these questions well but what you are trying to do is simply propaganda.

I well aware of your stance that whenever you need to distract attentions of people away from the core of the problem, you bring propaganda as much as you can find. And I'm sure as usual you won't answer the questions I've asked.

[-mikkie2-]

Insan,

You confuse criminals that loot with a suposed state that does the looting! What has been going on is 'state' sponsored looting. Even to this day Insan, Turks are looting the heritage of Cyprus. Stripping off old frescoes from ancient buildings that are hundreds of years old and selling them on the open market is still going on and nobody seems to care about it. All you can do is blame it on us as a consequence of the situation.

All you can do is to label this as propaganda.

[insan]

Insan,

You confuse criminals that loot with a suposed state that does the looting! What has been going on is 'state' sponsored looting. Even to this day Insan, Turks are looting the heritage of Cyprus. Stripping off old frescoes from ancient buildings that are hundreds of years old and selling them on the open market is still going on and nobody seems to care about it. All you can do is blame it on us as a consequence of the situation.

All you can do is to label this as propaganda.

This is my analysis about the issue. In my opinion, this is the fact your leadership and its clan like and wish things to go worse and worse in North until pro-reunification TCs revolt and ask a Germany style reunification. It's not hard to see the other side of the medallion. But I don't think the dream of your leadership will ever come true.

[-mikkie2-]

Sorry Insan. There is NO EXCUSE for what is going on in the north. Any self respecting person should accept that what is going on in the north is wrong. All you can do is blame it on politcal motives of other people that have no control of what happens in the north.

It is history that is being destroyed and as human beings we should be safeguarding history for future generations and for the sake of humanity, not looting and destroying it.

[insan]

Sorry Insan. There is NO EXCUSE for what is going on in the north. Any self respecting person should accept that what is going on in the north is wrong. All you can do is blame it on politcal motives of other people that have no control of what happens in the north.

It is history that is being destroyed and as human beings we should be safeguarding history for future generations and for the sake of humanity, not looting and destroying it.

Courts judge the suspects according to the circumstances they had been in. It is obvious that overwhelming majority of "criminals" had no other alternatives than committing these "crimes".

It is history that is being destroyed and as human beings we should be safeguarding history for future generations and for the sake of humanity, not looting and destroying it.

I agree with you. Historical heritage of GCs should have protected in North. What about the situation in so-called free areas? 116 mosques and shrines destruyed by GC extremists. Could GC leadership protect historical heritage belong to TCs in South?

[Kifeas]

What about the situation in so-called free areas? 116 mosques and shrines destruyed by GC extremists. Could GC leadership protect historical heritage belong to TCs in South?

Insan, can you provide me a list with these 116 mosques and shrines that were destroyed by GCs? Name of Shrine and location. I will personally investigate as many as possible of these cases and present them in this forum. In Pafos I am only aware of a minaret on which in 1964 some Turkish Cypriots set up a machinegun and were firing all around Pafos from up there. Consequently, some GCs fired and destroyed it with a bazooka.

[insan]

Legal documents:

http://www.un.org/documents/ga/docs/55/a551032.pdf
http://www.peace.ie/read/cyprus.html
http://www.parliament.the-stationery-of ... 13we45.htm

It is noteworthy that Rina Catselli, the Greek Cypriot writer and politician, on page 21 of her book, “Refuge in my Homeland” writes:



“The presidential palace was destroyed afterwards to cover up the fact that it had been looted. Works of art were plundered from the Archbishopric by the henchmen of the Greek Junta. My God! ….Nothing is sacred to these people…”



The problem of vandalism and theft of valuable public property including works of art and antiquities is not only an international problem but also one which has existed since time immemorial and clearly transcends political disputes. However, while the plundering of antiquities under the control of the Greek Cypriot Administration is interpreted by the Greek Cypriots as part of an international problem which, according to them, they are doing their best to contain, the incidents of the Turkish Cypriot side are presented as part of a deliberate programme for plundering Cyprus’ cultural heritage. The following is a very good example in this regard. During 1980 the invaluable “Leda and Swan” mosaic was stolen from the Kuklia Museum situated in the Greek Cypriot district of Paphos. In the face of heavy local and international criticism the Greek Cypriot minister in charge of the Department of Antiquities on the Greek Cypriot side made the following statement: “Thefts from museums even from the very well known museums in the large cities of Europe and the USA, do take place all over the world despite draconian measures being taken”. ( Cyprus Mail, 3 January, 1991).

It is very upsetting to see that area so depressed--but many things in Cyprus are upsetting. Mosques in southern Cyprus have been destroyed and Muslim graveyards have been desecrated. Greek Orthodox churches have also been desecrated in northern Cyprus.

http://www.parliament.the-stationery-of ... 029-04.htm

[metecyp]

Sorry Insan. There is NO EXCUSE for what is going on in the north. Any self respecting person should accept that what is going on in the north is wrong. All you can do is blame it on politcal motives of other people that have no control of what happens in the north.

I agree with mikkie here. There is no excuse for looting even if the same happenned in the south. I'm disturbed more about the cultural looting. Many churches were looted after 1974. Many icons that belonged to Cyprus were sold to foreigners and nobody did anything about it in the north. It's a shame for TCs that many GC churches in the north are in horrible condition. Maybe it's not state sponsored to neglect GC churches, maybe it's simply lack of money but some churches are used as animal barns and there's no excuse for that whatsoever.

[Kifeas]

Insan, if you do not have a ready list for the 116 mosques and shrines that were destroyed by GCs, it is not a shame to just say that you need more time to investigate it and compile such a list. I didn’t tell you to give it to me now. You can take your time. I have no problem.

By the way, I am already aware of all these links that you provided in your previous posting. Why did you post them here? Are they instead of the list that I asked for?????