Cyprus-Forum.com

[Tim Drayton]

I was wondering if you would translate that article. Well written and truthful.

I find the figure of 8357 amazing. Do you think it is true? I would like to see it confirmed with some hard data.

[zan]

In the interests of complying with forum rules, I here post a translation of the Afrika article by Turgut Afşaroğlu first published on 5 January 2009, whose original text I posted in this thread yesterday:

Lord, what a stupid, what a wretched community we are. It is probably impossible to find another community on this globe that fears the law as much as we do. Persistently and stubbornly we move outside international law, and at the same time are afraid.
***
International law says: - An international agreement, for example the 1960 Cyprus Agreements, retains its validity until a new one is concluded in its place. What did we do after 1974? We imagined that the Republic of Cyprus did not exist. Pushing to one side the fact that the guarantors’ sole right was to restore the broken-down Constitutional order, we abandoned our rights in the Republic of Cyprus. Denktash was elected Republic of Cyprus Vice-President in 1973. He had the right to continue in this capacity until 1978. However, no sooner had the TCFS been founded in 1975 than he abandoned this post. It is unclear whom he asked, from whom he obtained authority. If he had remained in this post until the end, he would have been able to veto the Republic of Cyprus’s unilateral EU entry and the Greek Cypriot side would have been unable to accede to the EU on its own.
***
International law says: - According to the Geneva Convention, moving people to a territory that has been taken by armed force, and granting them citizenship, is a crime. What did we do? First, in the name of agricultural labour we moved people from Turkey, then we gave them citizenship and the right to vote. What was the result? Turkish Cypriots have been turned into a minority in their own region and have been deprived of their political will. The elected have become Ankara’s puppets.
***
International law says: - You cannot hand out title deeds as you wish for land or property that has been taken with armed force, as though it belonged to you. What did we do? We issued title deeds not only to Turkish Cypriots coming from the south, but also to Turks coming from the north. At this point, let me remind you: until the 1985 TRNC Constitution was adopted, only Usage Certificates were issued rather than title deeds. This was because we opposition Founding Assembly members at the time saw to it that, in accordance with international law, an article was placed in the 1975 TCFS Constitution: - Regardless of any other provision in this Constitution, immovable property abandoned by Greek Cypriots may not be transferred to any real person or corporate body. This article was removed from the 1985 TRNC Constitution and the mad rush to issue title deeds ensued.
***
First the Loizidou case, then the Aresti and Turkish Bank suits came in quick succession. We have lost all of these suits. You should be in no doubt that the Orams case will also result in our defeat. So what needs to be done? Initially, as Barış Mamalı has said, it is necessary to pay compensation immediately in the Orams case, without awaiting the European Court of Justice judgment and without leaving the English courts to deliberate on the matter. It is then necessary to start similar actions to the Orams case concerning construction without permission on Turkish Cypriot land in South Cyprus. Let me immediately pass on a piece of information: the Greek Cypriot side has not been outdone by us. Construction has taken place on a total of 8357 Turkish Cypriot plots without obtaining permission from the Turkish Cypriot owner. Not only the Orams case, but also suits like the Loizidou, Aresti and Turkish bank suits, create precedents for us. And in these matters we can file countersuits. It is like we said! Turks are afraid of the law.

The same writer could be writing about being a part of a race that is no longer a part of Cyprus had those events not taken place...It seems some re not appreciative of circumstance...

[samarkeolog]

I was wondering if you would translate that article. Well written and truthful.

I find the figure of 8357 amazing. Do you think it is true? I would like to see it confirmed with some hard data.

I wouldn't hold your breath...

Well, it seems like the plots were "empty" - for agriculture, allotments, whatever, but not buildings - so a lot of them might have been small or thin pieces of land. Strip farming or other field systems like that could create places where one small building could still cover (parts of) several plots of land.

Plus, I understand there were some huge projects - airports, hospitals, housing estates(?), etc. - that might be one thing, but again, might cover lots of pieces of land.

Maybe it's true, but the numbers sound misleading...?

[bill cobbett]

I was wondering if you would translate that article. Well written and truthful.

I find the figure of 8357 amazing. Do you think it is true? I would like to see it confirmed with some hard data.

I wouldn't hold your breath...

Well, it seems like the plots were "empty" - for agriculture, allotments, whatever, but not buildings - so a lot of them might have been small or thin pieces of land. Strip farming or other field systems like that could create places where one small building could still cover (parts of) several plots of land.

Plus, I understand there were some huge projects - airports, hospitals, housing estates(?), etc. - that might be one thing, but again, might cover lots of pieces of land.

Maybe it's true, but the numbers sound misleading...?

The number may be explained in part by cases where those who have taken refuge in tc homes in the RoC have modified the original tc home by say adding an extra room, by way of a simple extension, to accommodate a growing family. I know of a number of such examples.

[samarkeolog]

I was wondering if you would translate that article. Well written and truthful.

I find the figure of 8357 amazing. Do you think it is true? I would like to see it confirmed with some hard data.

I wouldn't hold your breath...

Well, it seems like the plots were "empty" - for agriculture, allotments, whatever, but not buildings - so a lot of them might have been small or thin pieces of land. Strip farming or other field systems like that could create places where one small building could still cover (parts of) several plots of land.

Plus, I understand there were some huge projects - airports, hospitals, housing estates(?), etc. - that might be one thing, but again, might cover lots of pieces of land.

Maybe it's true, but the numbers sound misleading...?

The number may be explained in part by cases where those who have taken refuge in tc homes in the RoC have modified the original tc home by say adding an extra room, by way of a simple extension, to accommodate a growing family. I know of a number of such examples.

The article talks about the 8,357 plots as 'similar to the Orams case [Orams davasına benzer]', so it sounds like land.

The Turkish Cypriot Properties Service says that '5708 [Turkish Cypriot homes]... have been allocated to refugees in order to live in them'.

You're probably right and some of the "5,708 Turkish Cypriot homes allocated to Greek Cypriot refugees" are included within the "8,357 Turkish Cypriot plots built on without permission". But they do say "built on", rather than just "lived in", so I think a lot of the 8,357 plots must have been open land. (Still, they might have been olive groves, or fruit orchards, or something else important to the character of the place and the identity of the community.)

[denizaksulu]

I was wondering if you would translate that article. Well written and truthful.

I find the figure of 8357 amazing. Do you think it is true? I would like to see it confirmed with some hard data.

I should have expanded more. I almst always never give much credence to figures by anyone. But the above figure must have been obtained from somewhere where such data can be shown t be true. I have no reason to disbelieve it. Probably , 'yalancinin yalancisiyim'. I hope not.

[Tim Drayton]

I was wondering if you would translate that article. Well written and truthful.

I find the figure of 8357 amazing. Do you think it is true? I would like to see it confirmed with some hard data.

I should have expanded more. I almst always never give much credence to figures by anyone. But the above figure must have been obtained from somewhere where such data can be shown t be true. I have no reason to disbelieve it. Probably , 'yalancinin yalancisiyim'. I hope not.

In the following interview with the head of the Nicosia Bar Association, Barış Mamalı (final paragraph of the interview):

http://www.kibrisgazetesi.com/popup.php ... c_Haberler

he claims that nearly 20% of Turkish Cypriot owned land in the south has been acquired pursuant to the 1962 Compulsory Acquisition of Property Law.

[CBBB]

I was wondering if you would translate that article. Well written and truthful.

I find the figure of 8357 amazing. Do you think it is true? I would like to see it confirmed with some hard data.

I should have expanded more. I almst always never give much credence to figures by anyone. But the above figure must have been obtained from somewhere where such data can be shown t be true. I have no reason to disbelieve it. Probably , 'yalancinin yalancisiyim'. I hope not.

In the following interview with the head of the Nicosia Bar Association, Barış Mamalı (final paragraph of the interview):

http://www.kibrisgazetesi.com/popup.php ... c_Haberler

he claims that nearly 20% of Turkish Cypriot owned land in the south has been acquired pursuant to the 1962 Compulsory Acquisition of Property Law.

It would be interesting to know what the total area involved is and how much non-TC land in the RoC has also been acquired in this way.

Not that I have any idea where this information could be found.

[Tim Drayton]

I was wondering if you would translate that article. Well written and truthful.

I find the figure of 8357 amazing. Do you think it is true? I would like to see it confirmed with some hard data.

I should have expanded more. I almst always never give much credence to figures by anyone. But the above figure must have been obtained from somewhere where such data can be shown t be true. I have no reason to disbelieve it. Probably , 'yalancinin yalancisiyim'. I hope not.

In the following interview with the head of the Nicosia Bar Association, Barış Mamalı (final paragraph of the interview):

http://www.kibrisgazetesi.com/popup.php ... c_Haberler

he claims that nearly 20% of Turkish Cypriot owned land in the south has been acquired pursuant to the 1962 Compulsory Acquisition of Property Law.

It would be interesting to know what the total area involved is and how much non-TC land in the RoC has also been acquired in this way.

Not that I have any idea where this information could be found.

Agreed. I would like to see independent confirmation for some of these claims.

[zan]

Whose land are these buildings on....Anyone know????

Refugee faces eviction from Limassol home
By Anna Hassapi
Lost housing rights after accepting £750 from state

GREEK CYPRIOT refugee, Andreas Theodorou, is up in arms after being told to vacate his residence at Linopetra refugee estate in Limassol, where he has been staying since 1976.

The decision to expel Theodorou was made after the death of his elderly mother, with whom the 44-year-old man had been living, on the pretext that he lost the right to housing aid when he accepted £750 from the state in 1992.

“Under no circumstances can I accept this unfair treatment against me, as I am essentially trapped because of a ridiculous amount, in my opinion, which I accepted as a gift without knowing the legal bearing of my action. [As a result] I lost my right to the house, which I believe the state should grant me,” Theodorou said.

According to the relevant law, each refugee is entitled to housing aid only once and thus Theodorou is not entitled to anything after getting the £750 in 1992. Had he not received this amount from the state, then he would have been entitled to inheriting his mother’s house, as all his siblings have received housing aid and have moved elsewhere.

The 44-year-old challenges the validity of the state’s interpretation of the law for three main reasons: he was not aware that by accepting the £750 he would lose the right to claim his mother’s house; the amount is trivial compared to the average housing aid received by Greek Cypriot refugees, and the £750 was put towards a second toilet in the house for his sick mother and not to buy a house.

“Anytime they ask me, I am willing to return the £750 plus all interest in order to have the right to stay in the refugee house where I grew up,” Theodorou added.

After he was asked to leave the house, Theodorou sent a letter to the Interior Ministry, explaining his situation and asking that his case is reviewed.

The Ministry replied that as he had accepted housing aid in 1992 he cannot be entitled to the house. The state also refused to consider Theodorou’s suggestion of returning the money in exchange for the house. Following the man’s refusal to vacate the house the state has set a Court date for January 20.

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