Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

Dr Georgios Nakratzas
Chest-physician, Writer

Shit happens when your sources are unauthorized individuals…

http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/forum/ ... atzas.html

http://www.theturkishtimes.com/archive/ ... tters.html

http://www.mymacedonia.net/links/email4.htm

Who cares where it comes from......That tactic does not work on me sweatheart.....The fact is..:


On 10 September 1964 the UN Secretary-General reported (UN doc. S/5950):
"UNFICYP carried out a detailed survey of all damage to properties throughout the island during the disturbances, . . . . . . . . . it shows that in 109 villages, most of them Turkish-Cypriot or mixed villages, 527 houses have been destroyed while 2,000 others have suffered damage from looting. In Ktima 38 houses and shops have been destroyed totally and 122 partially. In the Orphomita suburb of Nicosia, 50 houses have been totally destroyed while a further 240 have been partially destroyed there and in adjacent suburbs."

[Get Real!]

The fact is..:

Sorry, but without UN doc. S/5950 you ain't got no facts...

[zan]

The fact is..:

Sorry, but without UN doc. S/5950 you ain't got no facts...

Still looking for the smoke like Kafenes ey GR......That was posted here a year ago and you know it......Now don't make me have to slap you around boy......

[Get Real!]

The fact is..:

Sorry, but without UN doc. S/5950 you ain't got no facts...

Still looking for the smoke like Kafenes ey GR......That was posted here a year ago and you know it......Now don't make me have to slap you around boy......

You’ve already been UTTERLY disgraced over this issue in the past. See Polis’ response to you here…

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus15804-110.html

[zan]

The fact is..:

Sorry, but without UN doc. S/5950 you ain't got no facts...

Still looking for the smoke like Kafenes ey GR......That was posted here a year ago and you know it......Now don't make me have to slap you around boy......

You’ve already been UTTERLY disgraced over this issue in the past. See Polis’ response to you here…

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus15804-110.html

And then many responses showing so called Greek villages being actually TC........So what is the conclusion.....You guys spending all your time on the internet trying to cause confusion. You especially. You seem to come to conclusions that are simply not there GR..then you were always a egomaniac...


Time for bed now........See you tomorrow.

[samarkeolog]

Yes I'm sorry ... it really is absurd to suggest any means other than fair and rational, were behind the pillaging and taking of nearly half our Island!

Silly me I should have known the Turks conduct themselves with the utmost decorum, even in war!

Are you confusing 1964 with 1974? I agree Turkish Cypriot nationalist extremists conducted false flag operations - I've posted about them - and it's well-known that they punished and occasionally killed Turkish Cypriots who misbehaved. It's also very well-known what the occupying forces did in 1974 and afterwards. But the recognised, accepted fact is that it was Greek Cypriot nationalist extremists who attacked the Turkish Cypriot villages in 1963 and 1964, not Turkish Cypriots who attacked themselves.

The assertion that Peristerona houses were looted etc is not accurate

I'm not disagreeing with you, just checking we're talking about the same village, so I know which one to exclude from a list of looted/burned villages. Patrick meant Peristerona-Morphou. Did you?

And one more detail, my grandfather's house has been bulldozed because the TCs who were trasferred to the village from Polis did not want any empty houses left to attract settlers. This use of demolition as a "counter settler" measure is seen frequently in the occupied Morphou area.

That is really interesting. I think there are so many aspects of the destruction of places that aren't widely-appreciated. (Like Turkish Cypriots' destruction of Greek Cypriot homes, not to destroy Greek Cypriot places or to prevent Greek Cypriot return, but instead to prevent Turkish settlement; or like Turkish conversion of churches into mosques, not to violate Christian spaces or to Turkify the landscape, but instead to prevent their destruction by Turkish Cypriot nationalist extremists.)

May I urge fellow members to apply a little common sense when discussing what happens to the older style mud-built homes when they are abandoned.

It's a common practise to take away the re-usable parts of these buildings so that things like the slate/tiled roofs, the timber roof trusses, timber doors, windows and shutters, all of which are of value and re-usable would have been reclaimed for use elsewhere. Also very consistent with the hard times of the early '60s and in the years following the 74 Invasion. Need led to recycling.

Seen many examples of this happening to homes in villages in the Occupied North where the valuable, reusable bits have been taken from the older houses leaving just the unusable walls. Also saw this in a number of old abandoned tc hamlets a little way off the Paphos-Polis road.

All that's left are shells.

Yeah, I've seen that to, north and south. But are you saying the buildings with standing walls are mudbrick, and the ones that are just lines in the ground were stone (but the stone has been recycled), or are you saying the buildings with standing walls are stone, and the ones that are just lines in the ground were mudbrick (but the mudbrick has broken down)?

Left alone to the elements, a moderate size house would disappear within ten or 20 years if not regularly replastered or the roof not re-laid.

Yes, I understand mudbrick needs annual replastering (Feilden, 1982: 74; Petersen, 1996: 198 - ignore them, the references are just a note to myself). But if the building breaks down naturally, there are always some remains - even if they are just bumps in the ground. (They often still follow the lines of the walls, or form an X of five bumps :-:, one for each corner, and then a pile of fallen walls and roof in the middle.) Even if they'the buildings are destroyed, there is still some material left. It's only the bombed or bulldozed buildings that can disappear completely and become lines in the ground.)

[samarkeolog]

Sorry, but without UN doc. S/5950 you ain't got no facts...

However, I not only quoted from but linked to the UN Security Council Report website-hosted pdf of that report in this thread:

in Report S/5950, the United Nations [Secretary-General] (1964: 48 - para. 180) stated that 'in 109 villages, most of them Turkish Cypriot or mixed villages, 527 houses have been destroyed while 2,000 others have suffered damage from looting', so a lot more villages than Patrick named must also have had damaged and destroyed homes, and that was only up to September 1964. (So by 1967, 1974, 1976, or later, there would have been many, many more damaged and destroyed places.)

So, now you can read it, from an official source. Will you accept it now?

[Tim Drayton]

On 10 September 1964 the UN Secretary-General reported (UN doc. S/5950):
"UNFICYP carried out a detailed survey of all damage to properties throughout the island during the disturbances, . . . . . . . . . it shows that in 109 villages, most of them Turkish-Cypriot or mixed villages, 527 houses have been destroyed while 2,000 others have suffered damage from looting. In Ktima 38 houses and shops have been destroyed totally and 122 partially. In the Orphomita suburb of Nicosia, 50 houses have been totally destroyed while a further 240 have been partially destroyed there and in adjacent suburbs."

Thank you Zan for providing us with the voice of reason. The truth is that in the course of the 1963-1964 conflict, Turkish Cypriot owned immovable property suffered damage in 109 villages. Any normal, balanced human being must surely condemn this wanton destruction. However, this is very different from claiming that 109 villages were, in their entirety, burned, destroyed, razed to the ground or wiped off the map; claims that one can find, using this very language, in certain propaganda vehicles.

Can we all finally agree that when mainland Turkish writer Adnan Tink alleges in the following article:

http://www.hurhaber.net/makaledetails.isk?ID=437

that 130 Turkish Cypriot villages were burned in 1963, this is a lie, and a lie whose only purpose is to flan the flames of hatred? This, Halil, is the only point I am trying to prove.

Can we not agree on this and, as GR suggests, declare this thread closed?

[CBBB]

I second the motion.

[kafenes]

Dr Georgios Nakratzas
Chest-physician, Writer

Shit happens when your sources are unauthorized individuals…

http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/forum/ ... atzas.html

http://www.theturkishtimes.com/archive/ ... tters.html

http://www.mymacedonia.net/links/email4.htm

Who cares where it comes from......That tactic does not work on me sweatheart.....The fact is..:


On 10 September 1964 the UN Secretary-General reported (UN doc. S/5950):
"UNFICYP carried out a detailed survey of all damage to properties throughout the island during the disturbances, . . . . . . . . . it shows that in 109 villages, most of them Turkish-Cypriot or mixed villages, 527 houses have been destroyed while 2,000 others have suffered damage from looting. In Ktima 38 houses and shops have been destroyed totally and 122 partially. In the Orphomita suburb of Nicosia, 50 houses have been totally destroyed while a further 240 have been partially destroyed there and in adjacent suburbs."

Now we seem to be getting just a little closer to the truth.
Zan, I presume this is your way of admitting that 108 villages were not burnt down. I accept your apology.
Regarding the 'detailed survey' where it gives figures like '109' and '527' and then uses the phrase 'MOST OF THEM' doesn't sound detailed but more like coffee shop bullshit.
38 houses and shops 'totally destroyed' in Ktima is also very incorrect according to Ktima residents who witnessed 1964 troubles first hand.
BTW it's 'OMORPHITA' and not 'ORPHOMITA'. Get your detailed survey facts correct.