Tim Drayton wrote:Tim Drayton wrote:denizaksulu wrote:DT. wrote:denizaksulu wrote:shahmaran wrote:I didn't realize that us referring to the GC's as "Rum" was derogatory, even the Turkish news on TV and the radio here AND in Turkey usually refer to them as "Rum" or "Guney Kibris Rum yonetimi".
It is NOT derogatory at all. We have other derogatory words, which I do not include in my vocabulary. Even Mevlana is Rumi.
gavour
We have used the word 'giavourcuk', not as a derogatory word, merely to denote a young or child GC or a GC friend. The word gavur is used in that way. I suppose we have used the word to denote TC haters or Eoka members, but not to the ordinary GC.
Sorry, but sitting in coffee shops in the north of Cyprus I fairly frequently hear the term 'gavur' used to refer to GCs in general.
Fair point.
I wonder if I could quote from the entry on page 266 of Orhan Kabataş's Etymological Dictionary of Cypriot Turkish, which I consider to be a work of great academic value:
gavır 'Rum'. XIV. yüzyıl Anadolu Türkçesi metinlerde kavur 'gavur, kafir' biçiminde geçer (TS:2363). Ölçunlu dilde gavur 'müslüman olmayanlar' anlamında kullanılır. < Ar. kafir
He says that the word 'gavir' simply means 'Rum' i.e. Greek Cypriot when used in Turkish Cypriot, with no indication that it has any derogatory meaning. This word appears in 16th century Anatoilan Turkish texts in the form kavur meaning 'gavur, kafir' (i.e. non believer). He then adds that in standard language it is used with the meaning of gavur 'non-Muslims'. The root of the word is the Arabic 'kafir'.
I am genuinely curious here. As somebody far more familiar with Anatolian Turkish, where the word 'gavur' is definitely a strongly pejorative term, I am frankly shocked when I hear TCs refer to GCs as 'gavur', which they seem to do in a matter of fact way. Could it be that this word has no pejorative sense when used in the Turkish Cypriot dialect to refer to GCs? I would appreciate feedback from Turkish Cypriots on this.
This may seem like hair splitting, but I think the way that the communities in Cyprus refer to one another is of great relevance to the Cyprus problem.
Tim, as a TC i can say that "gavur" alone is not really much of an insult here, it can be used as an insult when combined with other words but it just means someone who is foreign or non-Muslim. It is not very kind to address someone with it directly, it is just a general term.
I think it was pejorative back in the day since maybe not being Muslim was not really accepted with much respect, however today it is far from it.
I think it is similar to the word "arap" which actually means "Arab" but TC's and sometimes Turks also use it to refer to black people or people with darker skin than usual, it is far from being insulting, i guess it is just a way of talking about the "different" one
Also reminds of the Spanish word "gringo" which is probably used in the same way, it is also not much of an insult.
Actually the word "gavur" is used in many funny ways that makes you wonder how it became to be as such considering we "love" each other so much.
Here are some examples:
"gâvur" merciless, cruel, heartless; obstinate.
"gâvur bozuntusu" slang stutterer, stammerer.
"gâvur etmek" /y/ colloq. to squander, waste (something).
"gâvur eziyeti", deliberately making someone´s job hard, backbreaking work.
"gâvur icadi" invention imported from the West.
"gâvur inadi" pigheadedness, obstinacy.
"gâvur a kizip oruç yemek/bozmak" to harm oneself in an effort to spite someone else, cut off one´s nose to spite one´s face.
"gâvur olmak", to become a Christian, to be wasted.
"gâvur orucu gibi uzamak" to be interminable, go on endlessly.
"gâvur ölüsü gibi" (like a dead gavur) very heavy or bulky.
On the other hand "kafir" is mainly used by the extremely religious, since they are the only fools who would address people according to their beliefs, no one in the right mind would care anymore, hence why it is not very popular.
