Cyprus-Forum.com

[phoenix]

Why are you two so obsessed with two foreign countries !!!
Lets have something said about OUR country , CYPRUS .

Miltiades ...wake up!

Stop acting naive ... no one belives the Turks-TCs care for Cyprus ... they only care about themselves and Turkey.

[utu]

Why are you two so obsessed with two foreign countries !!!
Lets have something said about OUR country , CYPRUS .

Miltiades ...wake up!

Stop acting naive ... no one belives the Turks-TCs care for Cyprus ... they only care about themselves and Turkey.

You know, Phoenix. Your hatred of the Turks has got to stop - particularly as you're lumping the Turkish Cypriots into the same pot. There has got to be reconciliation between the two sides in Cyprus, but its plain that you are too wrathed up in hate to see that. You are right in that the Turkish Troops and the Anatolian Settlers need to leave, but your posts are strongly suggesting that even the Turkish Cypriots are unwelcome. Israel is an example of forced amalgamation at gunpoint not succeeding. Just what do you want?

[Tim Drayton]

Rum, Romios, was originally a way to deny Hellenic roots to the population the Ottomans conquered. The condescending attitude was also displayed by the Romans, as you will see when you read Cicero and Augustus.

Everyone has these high falluting notions of the ancient Greeks and once they get close and see that the Greeks were regular folk and not philosophers from birth they start theorising as to how the Greeks disappeared and these people are something else. The Romans did it, then the Ottomans and later people like Falmereyer (spelling?). Lately it has changed and they call the mainland Greeks Yunan, but GC remain Rum Kibris. Former Greek foreign undersecretaty Kapsis used to take the piss when meeting Turkish officials by correcting this to Yunan Kibris.

I am a linguist, so your reply interests me.

Turkish actually has four words which correspond to the English "Greek": Yunanlı, Rum, Helen, and Grek. I am not sure whether Greeks should be flattered that Turkish considers them important enough to be honoured with four names. Leaving that issue aside, the final two items in the list are used to refer mainly to ancient Greeks, and the last item is really only found in dictionaries and is not used widely.

The term "Yunanlı" is used specifically to refer to a citizen of the Greek state (known as "Yunanistan"). I don't know much about the etymology of this word, but I believe that Arabic uses a very similar word for Greece. I wonder if this word was coined in 1829 to describe the newly-established Greek state, or if it was in use prior to that?

The term "Rum" that you find so conetentious is generally used in mainland Turkey to describe members of the Greek ethnic minority living in Turkey as citizens of the Turkish Republic (whose numbers are now sadly very small following the double whammy of the so-called "Wealth Tax" during World War II and the disgraceful events of 6/7 April 1955). The simple rationale for this is that they are not citizens of the Greek state ("Yunanistan") and so cannot be "Yunanlı" i.e. "of the Greek state". I do not believe that it is used in a derogatory sense.

As to the origins of this term, I thought that Byzantium was known as the Eastern Roman Empire, so that its inhabitants routinely referred to themselves as "Romios" and Turkish simply adopted this usage.

In support of this interpretation I can only advance the following quote from a humorous little book entitled "The Xenophobe's Guide to the Greeks" by Alexandra Fiada, in which she notes that:

"The phrase: "Forget it brother! I'm not going to stick my neck out for the Roman nation" is quite common [...]"

and she provides a footnote:

"In colloquial language the Greeks still call themselves 'Romans', since the Graeco-Byzantine Eastern Roman Empire was the only descendant of the Roman one and lasted for a thousand years after its Western half had disintegrated - something the rest of Europe has difficulty believing."

So, if Greeks themselves still colloquially refer to themseles as "Romans", what is the problem with Turks referring to them as such in their own language?

Turning to Cyprus, in the speech of Turkish Cypriots the term "Rum" specifically refers to the Greek Cypriot community as a unique cultural entity and in my view as such has positive political connotations. I do not feel that this carries any negative connotations in the minds of Turkish Cypriots. Far from it, it stresses the concept of partnership as joint inhabitants of the island. I also notice that some Turkish Cypriots make a distinction between the language they refer to as "Rumca" as the dialect of Greek spoken in Cyprus and "Yunanca" as the standard Greek language, which I think reflects a linguistic reality.

This is the first time that I have ever encountered an objection to the use of the term "Rum', and obviously if it is considered to be objectional, then it is good that you have raised this point.

[phoenix]

What about the term Kalamarades?

Didn't the Turks call the Greeks that in a disparaging way to insult them for turning to writing / scribbling with quills?

[denizaksulu]

Simple question DT..I have not read this publication so I ask...How much representation has the TCs had in this book...Our history our cultures our contribution to Cyprus as a whole.....OR.....Is it the usual negative stuff. I don't know..Can you advise...My guess is that we are not even mentioned as an important part of Cyprus...Can you advise?????[/i]

I have read the preface and I give it full marks for its anti TC and anti Turkish propaganda content.

Zan, you did not expect anything sensible did you? I think Kikapu was joint author.

[DT.]

What about the term Kalamarades?

Didn't the Turks call the Greeks that in a disparaging way to insult them for turning to writing / scribbling with quills?

Phoenix, I'm pretty sure the only people insulting theGreeks with the term Kalamarades are the GC's..

[umit07]

"Kalamarades" anyone care to explain?

[denizaksulu]

Rum, Romios, was originally a way to deny Hellenic roots to the population the Ottomans conquered. The condescending attitude was also displayed by the Romans, as you will see when you read Cicero and Augustus.

Everyone has these high falluting notions of the ancient Greeks and once they get close and see that the Greeks were regular folk and not philosophers from birth they start theorising as to how the Greeks disappeared and these people are something else. The Romans did it, then the Ottomans and later people like Falmereyer (spelling?). Lately it has changed and they call the mainland Greeks Yunan, but GC remain Rum Kibris. Former Greek foreign undersecretaty Kapsis used to take the piss when meeting Turkish officials by correcting this to Yunan Kibris.

I am a linguist, so your reply interests me.

Turkish actually has four words which correspond to the English "Greek": Yunanlı, Rum, Helen, and Grek. I am not sure whether Greeks should be flattered that Turkish considers them important enough to be honoured with four names. Leaving that issue aside, the final two items in the list are used to refer mainly to ancient Greeks, and the last item is really only found in dictionaries and is not used widely.

The term "Yunanlı" is used specifically to refer to a citizen of the Greek state (known as "Yunanistan"). I don't know much about the etymology of this word, but I believe that Arabic uses a very similar word for Greece. I wonder if this word was coined in 1829 to describe the newly-established Greek state, or if it was in use prior to that?

The term "Rum" that you find so conetentious is generally used in mainland Turkey to describe members of the Greek ethnic minority living in Turkey as citizens of the Turkish Republic (whose numbers are now sadly very small following the double whammy of the so-called "Wealth Tax" during World War II and the disgraceful events of 6/7 April 1955). The simple rationale for this is that they are not citizens of the Greek state ("Yunanistan") and so cannot be "Yunanlı" i.e. "of the Greek state". I do not believe that it is used in a derogatory sense.

As to the origins of this term, I thought that Byzantium was known as the Eastern Roman Empire, so that its inhabitants routinely referred to themselves as "Romios" and Turkish simply adopted this usage.

In support of this interpretation I can only advance the following quote from a humorous little book entitled "The Xenophobe's Guide to the Greeks" by Alexandra Fiada, in which she notes that:

"The phrase: "Forget it brother! I'm not going to stick my neck out for the Roman nation" is quite common [...]"

and she provides a footnote:

"In colloquial language the Greeks still call themselves 'Romans', since the Graeco-Byzantine Eastern Roman Empire was the only descendant of the Roman one and lasted for a thousand years after its Western half had disintegrated - something the rest of Europe has difficulty believing."

So, if Greeks themselves still colloquially refer to themseles as "Romans", what is the problem with Turks referring to them as such in their own language?

Turning to Cyprus, in the speech of Turkish Cypriots the term "Rum" specifically refers to the Greek Cypriot community as a unique cultural entity and in my view as such has positive political connotations. I do not feel that this carries any negative connotations in the minds of Turkish Cypriots. Far from it, it stresses the concept of partnership as joint inhabitants of the island. I also notice that some Turkish Cypriots make a distinction between the language they refer to as "Rumca" as the dialect of Greek spoken in Cyprus and "Yunanca" as the standard Greek language, which I think reflects a linguistic reality.

This is the first time that I have ever encountered an objection to the use of the term "Rum', and obviously if it is considered to be objectional, then it is good that you have raised this point.

In addition, in Turkish we differentiate between ' 'Ellinika' and 'Romega'. The former, for the Language of Greece and the latter for the 'Roman' other Greek speakers of the Cypriot dialect for example.


The word 'Yunanca', I like to believe is derived from the Arabic term for old greeks (perhaps) the language of the Ionians. I read this a long time ago and cannot remember the sources. I think it is plausible.

Also the name of Mevlana Celalleddin Rumi, means exactly that. He from the land of the 'Romans'.

Regards

Deniz

[DT.]

"Kalamarades" anyone care to explain?

derogatory term we use to refer to Greeks.

[shahmaran]

I didn't realize that us referring to the GC's as "Rum" was derogatory, even the Turkish news on TV and the radio here AND in Turkey usually refer to them as "Rum" or "Guney Kibris Rum yonetimi".