Cyprus-Forum.com

[halil]

Have you ever been to Turkey? If you have where did you go what did you see?

Why don't you tell me what site is the most worthy of a visit? A place or a monument that is widely accepted and recognized as a great feat of mankind? I'm not talking about hidden or less known "treasures" that one can find when exploring any country, I'm talking about the pinnacle of the Turkish civilization. What would that be, is it the Blue Mosque?

To talk of "the pinnacle of Turkish civilisation" is a little difficult, because there have been many Turkish/Turkic civilisations both in Central Asia and Anatolia. Anatoilia alone has witnessed three great Turkish civilisations: the Seljuks, the Ottomas and the modern Turkish Republic.

I take it you are referring to monuments that you can find in the Turkish Republic today. How about the Selimiye Mosque and Mevlana museum in Konya? What about the town of of Divriği, in my view one of Turkey's hidden treasures and a UNESCO world heritage site, home to several priceless Seljuk monuments? What about Topkapı Palace in Istanbul, from which for centuries a massive empire was governed in an age when the only means of communication was the horse, or the Sultan's later summer palace at Dolmabahçe? What about Ataturk's mausoleum in Ankara, or even better, just open your eyes and witness all around you the modern, secular, law-based state that Ataturk built out of the ruins of the Ottoman Empire or the many well-educated,cultured people around you who proudly continue on Ataturk's path towards Western modernity, and are surely the greatest monument to his achievements.

Αγαπη μου, whether you like it or not, the Turks are your neighbours. It is high time for Greek people to grow up and start understanding Turkey for waht it is rather than peddling these childish, simple minded, racist stereotypes as you are doing in this thread. It does not become a civilised people. I am British, but I lived in Turkey for twelve years and worked as a teacher there for quite a lot of this time. The distribution of intelligence and ability is, as far as I am concerned, equal across all populations and I can assure you that there are plenty of very bright and able people in Turkey, just as there are in Greece. Don't forget that novelist Orhan Pamuk won the Nobel prize for literature.

past , past ,past ??????

if you stuck at past .there will be no future.

to understand eachother we must talk with today living standarts and conditions.

[Nikitas]

Tim,

Undeniably there are intelligent and able people in Turkey. I think what Alexiss is alluding to is a certain heavy handedness we see in official Turkish practice. A good example being the official publication of the TRNC about Lapithos which I saw a few years back, it did not mention the word "Greek" once! The web site on Salamis did the same.

Friends who visited Ephesos two years ago described how the guides told them of "pre Turkic" people and the Hittites who built the city. Little things like these show this heavy handedness and this is what is worrying. As is the use of the word Rum, which in itself is an act of denial. A nation like Turkey should have the self confidence to accept the realities of the region in which it exists.

In Greece, at Ioannina, the guides will point to the islet in the Middle of the Lake and tell you very clearly that the refuge there was built by the Turkish Pasha for his Greek mistress. Simple, clear stuff.

[T_C]

Have you ever been to Turkey? If you have where did you go what did you see?

Why don't you tell me what site is the most worthy of a visit? A place or a monument that is widely accepted and recognized as a great feat of mankind? I'm not talking about hidden or less known "treasures" that one can find when exploring any country, I'm talking about the pinnacle of the Turkish civilization. What would that be, is it the Blue Mosque?

Oh get over yourself!!!! Does every race have a building thats widely accepted as a "great feat" for human kind? Or is it Greeks living upto their deranged Zlist status as per usual...
Like a bunch of actors from has been films trying to act like they're something special in todays world...PER-LEASE!

[alexISS]

Have you ever been to Turkey? If you have where did you go what did you see?

Why don't you tell me what site is the most worthy of a visit? A place or a monument that is widely accepted and recognized as a great feat of mankind? I'm not talking about hidden or less known "treasures" that one can find when exploring any country, I'm talking about the pinnacle of the Turkish civilization. What would that be, is it the Blue Mosque?

Oh get over yourself!!!! Does every race have a building thats widely accepted as a "great feat" for human kind? Or is it Greeks living upto their deranged Zlist status as per usual...
Like a bunch of actors from has been films trying to act like they're something special in todays world...PER-LEASE!

Typical Turkish attitude. I'm not "bragging" about anything, I would be equally sorry if it was any culture other than the Greek that the Ottomans had destroyed. Wake up, contrary to what they teach you, the Ottomans have destroyed much more than they have created, the positive contribution of the ancient Greeks is hardly something to brag about, but the performance of your ancestors is certainly NOT to be proud of

[alexISS]

Tim,

Undeniably there are intelligent and able people in Turkey. I think what Alexiss is alluding to is a certain heavy handedness we see in official Turkish practice. A good example being the official publication of the TRNC about Lapithos which I saw a few years back, it did not mention the word "Greek" once! The web site on Salamis did the same.

Friends who visited Ephesos two years ago described how the guides told them of "pre Turkic" people and the Hittites who built the city. Little things like these show this heavy handedness and this is what is worrying. As is the use of the word Rum, which in itself is an act of denial. A nation like Turkey should have the self confidence to accept the realities of the region in which it exists.

In Greece, at Ioannina, the guides will point to the islet in the Middle of the Lake and tell you very clearly that the refuge there was built by the Turkish Pasha for his Greek mistress. Simple, clear stuff.

Correct, there are no ancient Greek cities in Asia Minor, they are "Ionian", "proto Turkic" or "ancient Anatolian". I don't understand how Tim Drayton came to the conclusion that I consider the Turks less intelligent

[halil]

Tim,

Undeniably there are intelligent and able people in Turkey. I think what Alexiss is alluding to is a certain heavy handedness we see in official Turkish practice. A good example being the official publication of the TRNC about Lapithos which I saw a few years back, it did not mention the word "Greek" once! The web site on Salamis did the same.

Friends who visited Ephesos two years ago described how the guides told them of "pre Turkic" people and the Hittites who built the city. Little things like these show this heavy handedness and this is what is worrying. As is the use of the word Rum, which in itself is an act of denial. A nation like Turkey should have the self confidence to accept the realities of the region in which it exists.

In Greece, at Ioannina, the guides will point to the islet in the Middle of the Lake and tell you very clearly that the refuge there was built by the Turkish Pasha for his Greek mistress. Simple, clear stuff.

Nikitas,
have a look at the İnternet how you are claming our 100% TC'S villages are at North has been Turkified by Turkey.
These villages are some of them)
Galatya (Mehmetcik)
Serdarlı,Turunçlu,Kalavaç,Bey köy, Yeniceköy ,Kurumanastır, Sinde,Hamitköy, ortaköy,Gönyeli, boğaz, ağırdağ, kömürcü, dağyolu,göçer,pınarbaşı so on.
you are miss leading the world as well.

[shahmaran]

Have you ever been to Turkey? If you have where did you go what did you see?

Why don't you tell me what site is the most worthy of a visit? A place or a monument that is widely accepted and recognized as a great feat of mankind? I'm not talking about hidden or less known "treasures" that one can find when exploring any country, I'm talking about the pinnacle of the Turkish civilization. What would that be, is it the Blue Mosque?

To talk of "the pinnacle of Turkish civilisation" is a little difficult, because there have been many Turkish/Turkic civilisations both in Central Asia and Anatolia. Anatoilia alone has witnessed three great Turkish civilisations: the Seljuks, the Ottomas and the modern Turkish Republic.

I take it you are referring to monuments that you can find in the Turkish Republic today. How about the Selimiye Mosque and Mevlana museum in Konya? What about the town of of Divriği, in my view one of Turkey's hidden treasures and a UNESCO world heritage site, home to several priceless Seljuk monuments? What about Topkapı Palace in Istanbul, from which for centuries a massive empire was governed in an age when the only means of communication was the horse, or the Sultan's later summer palace at Dolmabahçe? What about Ataturk's mausoleum in Ankara, or even better, just open your eyes and witness all around you the modern, secular, law-based state that Ataturk built out of the ruins of the Ottoman Empire or the many well-educated,cultured people around you who proudly continue on Ataturk's path towards Western modernity, and are surely the greatest monument to his achievements.

Αγαπη μου, whether you like it or not, the Turks are your neighbours. It is high time for Greek people to grow up and start understanding Turkey for waht it is rather than peddling these childish, simple minded, racist stereotypes as you are doing in this thread. It does not become a civilised people. I am British, but I lived in Turkey for twelve years and worked as a teacher there for quite a lot of this time. The distribution of intelligence and ability is, as far as I am concerned, equal across all populations and I can assure you that there are plenty of very bright and able people in Turkey, just as there are in Greece. Don't forget that novelist Orhan Pamuk won the Nobel prize for literature.

Well thank you Tim, could not have put it better, tho i tried

[alexISS]

To talk of "the pinnacle of Turkish civilisation" is a little difficult, because there have been many Turkish/Turkic civilisations both in Central Asia and Anatolia. Anatoilia alone has witnessed three great Turkish civilisations: the Seljuks, the Ottomas and the modern Turkish Republic.

I take it you are referring to monuments that you can find in the Turkish Republic today. How about the Selimiye Mosque and Mevlana museum in Konya? What about the town of of Divriği, in my view one of Turkey's hidden treasures and a UNESCO world heritage site, home to several priceless Seljuk monuments? What about Topkapı Palace in Istanbul, from which for centuries a massive empire was governed in an age when the only means of communication was the horse, or the Sultan's later summer palace at Dolmabahçe? What about Ataturk's mausoleum in Ankara, or even better, just open your eyes and witness all around you the modern, secular, law-based state that Ataturk built out of the ruins of the Ottoman Empire or the many well-educated,cultured people around you who proudly continue on Ataturk's path towards Western modernity, and are surely the greatest monument to his achievements.

Tim Drayton, I'll ask you the same question I've asked before; The Ottomans, even by invasion, inherited perhaps the most culturally rich lands of the time. After all these years, would you say they improved on what they found? How can you explain the sudden and then continuous decline of the former center of the Western world? Are the sites you mention above worthy continuations (or even replacements) of what was there before?

Also, of what modern western state are you talking? Is it the same state that nurtures the world's most notorious racist group, the "grey wolves", who pledge loyalty to Ataturk's legacy by slitting the throats of priests and killing journalists? Is it perhaps the state that prosecutes and jails people like the nobelist Orhan Pamuk you reference? Is it the state that in a single night deported 200,000 Greeks and ended a continuous Greek presence in Istanbul/Constantinople for two millenia? Or are you talking about the state that sustains an active "casus belli" against my country in case it exercises its legal right of expanding its territorial waters?

Is your opinion of Turkey shared by your own countrymen? I wonder if you'd be as thrilled if you'd have the pleasure of having Turkey as a neighbour instead of France.

Αγαπη μου, whether you like it or not, the Turks are your neighbours. It is high time for Greek people to grow up and start understanding Turkey for waht it is rather than peddling these childish, simple minded, racist stereotypes as you are doing in this thread.

Interesting, so in all those years that you've lived in Turkey you never witnessed any anti-Greek sentiment worthy of mentioning in your extensive post? If one nation is aggressive towards the other it's the Turks against the Greeks Tim, not the other way around. Turkey is a threat to the sovereignity of it's neighbours, Greece is not

It does not become a civilised people. I am British, but I lived in Turkey for twelve years and worked as a teacher there for quite a lot of this time. The distribution of intelligence and ability is, as far as I am concerned, equal across all populations and I can assure you that there are plenty of very bright and able people in Turkey, just as there are in Greece. Don't forget that novelist Orhan Pamuk won the Nobel prize for literature.

I have no idea why you understood that I consider the Turks unintelligent, I've never said anything like that. So then, why do you voluntarily defend their intelligence?

[shahmaran]

Yeah the Germans exterminated how many millions?

Amazing culture too, some of the greatest thinkers and musicians, and that is just the tip of the iceberg, yet did it stop them?

You argument is absolutely unfounded and ridiculous. I don't think even you know what you are trying to prove here.

[shahmaran]

And Germany is just 1 example of the immense cruelty one can inflict up on the human race, regardless of their cultural advancements.

Lets not even get into the British and the French

All part of the great "awakening" i take it...