Cyprus-Forum.com

[alexISS]

I don't see how the Blue Mosque thing is "ignorance", you asked for a building and i gave you one, if you want more, search for Mimar Sinan and see more Ottoman architecture, if you want more contemporary stuff then look elsewhere, and if you don't like them then that's your problem.

However I never thought this had any weight on the argument either so I'm not going to pursue making a point on it either because i think it is irrelevant, you on the other hand, not knowing anything about Turkish literature thought you knew all about it and how "inferior" it was.

That is pure ignorance and arrogance of the first class.

Shahmaran, you weren't asked for the name of "a building", you were asked to give proof of the Ottoman cultural creativity, and instead you provided the perfect example of the immitating, not creative nature of your ancestors.

[alexISS]

What is more unfortunate, however, is not the lack of cultural productivity of the Ottomans, but the destruction they brought upon so many unique monuments that others had built in the lands they conquered. Imagine if the Turks had expanded to western Europe. How would it feel like to look at the Sistine Chapel with all eyes in the paintings scratched off or even worse if it was all replaced with arabic writings? The Turks' impact in the world's cultural heritage is in total NEGATIVE, and that is a fact beyond doubt

[Tim Drayton]

There is a supplement in the excellent dictionary of the Turkish Cypriot dialect/language (depending on one's viewpoint) by Turkish Cypriot academic Orhan Kabataş which lists the Turkish loan words used in the Greek Cypriot dialect/language. There are over 1,200 words in this list. This is an impressive number and bears testimony to the two-way cultural exchange that took place over the centuries on this island to produce a unique culture which resembles but is different from that of Greece or Turkey.

Let any of our friends from mainland Greece give the meaning of the following, all words that I frequently hear in the speech of Greek Cypriots:

χατε, καφετζησ, πεζεβεγκησ (sorry, I can't get the stress marks over the vowels - can anybody remind me how to do it?)

You probably cannot. Greek Cypriots every time they speak unwittingly bear testament to centuries of peaceful cohabitation on this island when both communities gradually influenced one another. Turkish Cypriots do the same whenever they use words like:

asvalya, bandabuliya, bulli

which are equally incomprehensible to mainland Turks.

It is time for people from the respective motherlands to understand and respect the diversity which will hopefully continue to be a feature of this island once a just and lasting settlement has been reached. Last time the motherlands stepped in and whipped up an atmosphere of chauvinism and hatred for the other community it brought Cyprus to the brink of disaster. Why can we not rejoice in the contributions made by all peoples over the milennia to make Cyprus the place it is today?

[shahmaran]

No, you gave a few architectural symbols that remind everyone of its creators and asked me to give one and i did, it does remind everyone of the Ottomans and Turkey, that's all.

I think you are just desperate to somehow prove that you are superior (whatever that means).

[alexISS]

Have you ever been to Turkey? If you have where did you go what did you see?

Why don't you tell me what site is the most worthy of a visit? A place or a monument that is widely accepted and recognized as a great feat of mankind? I'm not talking about hidden or less known "treasures" that one can find when exploring any country, I'm talking about the pinnacle of the Turkish civilization. What would that be, is it the Blue Mosque?

[halil]

You should hope there's no mention of the Turkish cultural contribution. Since 1974, they have destroyed much more than they have built, including a whole town which they turned to a "ghost", churches, religious icons that predate the Turkish presence on the island and pretty much anything not Turkish

Does it mention the TC villages burnt down by the GC's?

Now that would be a superb tourist attraction, let everyone see the real face of the south, or do you only invest in "viewing posts" that you use to advertise our doings?

any pictures from yagmuralan village or true Cypriot brother Birkibrisli village or rest of the other TC's villages and cemeteries and mosques.
any news about ourchild hood at 60's that we couldn't live for it . When i was living at open air jail between 63 to 74 .Who is going to pay for those years that i have lost.
when we are talking we must talk for both side .There must be balanced for everthing .If you talk always onesided no one listens you.They call it only propaganda.This is apply for both sides plans and thoughts.

[alexISS]

No, you gave a few architectural symbols that remind everyone of its creators and asked me to give one and i did, it does remind everyone of the Ottomans and Turkey, that's all.

Well, the one thing the Blue Mosque reminds people of, is the Hagia Sophia, actually most people who haven't been to Turkey confuse the two.

I think you are just desperate to somehow prove that you are superior (whatever that means).

I'm not desperate at all, and certainly have no superiority complexes like most Turks. The only thing that bothers and saddens me is the thought of all that is forever lost because of the Ottoman barbarism, and all that could have been had they never stepped foot in these lands

[Nikitas]

Tim,

You will be surprised at how much more Turkish is used by mainland Greeks than Greek Cypriots. After more than 30 years here I am still caught off guard by a Turkish word thrown at me in normal conversation. I learned dughru, mendesiri, kimbariko, and lots more we do not use in Cypriot Greek. At first I thought that this was due to the Turks having been in some parts of Greece (the north) in living memory. But the same could be said for Crete, yet there the use of Turkish words is minimal. Language does move in mysterious ways!

[Nikitas]

Alexiss,

The example of the Sistine Chapel being defaced is a good one.

The gouged out eyes on icons is a widely seen phenomenon. In the troglodyte dwellings and churches of Cappadocia the icons are almost all "blinded" in this way. Strange for a place which is touted as a major tourist attraction and coach loads of tourists visit it every day.

As for recognisable monuments in Turkey, the major international ad campaign on CNN and other major channels was telling-

it opened with views of Aghia Sophia, byzantine icons and mosaics, took in ancient Ephesos, and was higlighted with shots of the twirling dervishes. From that it is easy to gather that now, with religious tourism is on the rise we will see the churches in the TRNC being renovated and guided tours organized so rich Americans can follow "the steps of Saints Andrew and Barnabas", spend a few days of monastic contemplation at Saint Epiktitos and round it off with a performance of Othello in Famagusta.

[Tim Drayton]

Have you ever been to Turkey? If you have where did you go what did you see?

Why don't you tell me what site is the most worthy of a visit? A place or a monument that is widely accepted and recognized as a great feat of mankind? I'm not talking about hidden or less known "treasures" that one can find when exploring any country, I'm talking about the pinnacle of the Turkish civilization. What would that be, is it the Blue Mosque?

To talk of "the pinnacle of Turkish civilisation" is a little difficult, because there have been many Turkish/Turkic civilisations both in Central Asia and Anatolia. Anatoilia alone has witnessed three great Turkish civilisations: the Seljuks, the Ottomas and the modern Turkish Republic.

I take it you are referring to monuments that you can find in the Turkish Republic today. How about the Selimiye Mosque and Mevlana museum in Konya? What about the town of of Divriği, in my view one of Turkey's hidden treasures and a UNESCO world heritage site, home to several priceless Seljuk monuments? What about Topkapı Palace in Istanbul, from which for centuries a massive empire was governed in an age when the only means of communication was the horse, or the Sultan's later summer palace at Dolmabahçe? What about Ataturk's mausoleum in Ankara, or even better, just open your eyes and witness all around you the modern, secular, law-based state that Ataturk built out of the ruins of the Ottoman Empire or the many well-educated,cultured people around you who proudly continue on Ataturk's path towards Western modernity, and are surely the greatest monument to his achievements.

Αγαπη μου, whether you like it or not, the Turks are your neighbours. It is high time for Greek people to grow up and start understanding Turkey for waht it is rather than peddling these childish, simple minded, racist stereotypes as you are doing in this thread. It does not become a civilised people. I am British, but I lived in Turkey for twelve years and worked as a teacher there for quite a lot of this time. The distribution of intelligence and ability is, as far as I am concerned, equal across all populations and I can assure you that there are plenty of very bright and able people in Turkey, just as there are in Greece. Don't forget that novelist Orhan Pamuk won the Nobel prize for literature.