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How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Piratis » Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:52 am

shahmaran wrote:Yeah i think you have misunderstood the point there Piratis, maybe deliberately or maybe not, let me clarify it for you a bit, maybe put it in your own words to make it easier for you;

The Kurds are a MINORITY in an internationally recognized democratic country with an internationally recognized government, and are wishing to take land from 2 other countries other then Turkey in order to claim their independent land called Kurdistan.

Don't involve the same garbage about "indigenousness" since no one gives a shit about it but you, plus they are as "indigenous" to those lands as you are to Cyprus, which is not that much, but that's besides to point like i said.

So do you think the Kurds, as illegal as it is, have a right to claim independence if they actually had the military power to do so since they don't believe that their ethnicity is respected in that country?

Or do you think it is NOT OK for a minority, no matter what the reason, to claim their independence at will by violating the democratic and human rights of the majority? ie. Taking their land and properties with them.

Which one will it be Sir? And no wiggling about!


I didn't misunderstood anything and my answer to you was very precise.

The Kurds didn't steal Kurdistan from the Turks. The Kurds have been the majority of that territory long before the Turks arrived. It is their territory, and therefore they should be free to do whatever they want with it. The same could be said for others, e.g. the Scots of UK. It should be up to them if they want their territory to be part of another country or not.

TCs do not have their own separate territory. TCs are a minority like most other ethnic minorities which exist in most of other countries.

I have no problem if TCs are independent. What I have a problem with is with you stealing OUR land. So if you want to have as independent those villages where it is only TC or where the TCs are the majority, then no problem. But how the hell can you claim as yours something that belongs by 82% to us???? How can you claim that Kerynia, Morfou or Famagusta are yours when the great majority of the population are Greek Cypriots and when Greek Cypriots have lived in those places for way longer than you did?

We want our island to finally be liberated from foreign occupation so we can finally have our freedom and self-determination on our island, and you as a minority you can keep your land, the 100% of your human and democratic rights, plus the other minority rights that are given to minorities in all democratic countries.

We do not ask even for a single of your human rights to be violated. On the other hand, in order to forcefully, illegally and unnaturally create some "Turkish state" on land that by 82% belongs to us, you mass violate our human rights and perform the crime of ethnic cleansing against us.
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Postby Viewpoint » Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:00 am

Piratis you are right that in order to get the north back you will have to fight Turkey for it, no one will gift it to you. The best you can get out of all this mess via politicak means is a BBF where everyone can choose to reside in the North or South state under GC or TC administration. This is the only way we can build trust as neither sides trusts the other, we do not want to live under GC rule becuase we see it as a threat, can you understand our concern?
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Postby BC Numismatics » Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:07 am

Viewpoint,a united Cyprus should make no distinctions between Greek-speaking Cypriots & Turkish-speaking Cypriots.There should be one federal government - that represents ALL the people of Cyprus,irrespective of what language they speak & what ethnic group they come from.

Aidan.
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Postby Piratis » Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:12 am

If you want to have "two rulers" in Cyprus, instead of one (the Cypriots people as a whole) then you can have independence in those villages that are TC only, or where TCs are the majority. Why the hell should Kerynia, Morfou, Famagusta, Lapithos etc etc which belong either exclusively or by their great majority to GCs be under your "rule" and not under our "rule"?

Don't give me cheap excuses VP. What you want is to take our land and have power way more than what proportionately belongs to you. You started a war in order to achieve this, but be sure this war will not end with you winning. This war will go on for as long as is needed until your illegal occupation of our country ends.
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Postby miltiades » Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:17 am

The tragedy is that we have in Cyprus "YOU " and "US" when in fact the only sensible way forward is for all to be US , so that Bir , Kikapu , Halil , Piratis , and I can enjoy our island as one people , the Great Cypriot people.
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Postby BC Numismatics » Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:27 am

Miltiades,it shouldn't matter whether it is either a Greek-speaking Cypriot or a Turkish-speaking Cypriot who is elected as President of all Cyprus.As long as they're capable of doing the job,then they should be encouraged to prove themselves.

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Postby Viewpoint » Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:09 am

BC Numismatics wrote:Miltiades,it shouldn't matter whether it is either a Greek-speaking Cypriot or a Turkish-speaking Cypriot who is elected as President of all Cyprus.As long as they're capable of doing the job,then they should be encouraged to prove themselves.

Aidan.


This is easy for you to say when the balance is in your favor and we face the prospects of being ruled by vengence seeking GCs who we do not trust to do the right thing towards TCs.
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Postby Viewpoint » Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:11 am

Piratis wrote:If you want to have "two rulers" in Cyprus, instead of one (the Cypriots people as a whole) then you can have independence in those villages that are TC only, or where TCs are the majority. Why the hell should Kerynia, Morfou, Famagusta, Lapithos etc etc which belong either exclusively or by their great majority to GCs be under your "rule" and not under our "rule"?

Don't give me cheap excuses VP. What you want is to take our land and have power way more than what proportionately belongs to you. You started a war in order to achieve this, but be sure this war will not end with you winning. This war will go on for as long as is needed until your illegal occupation of our country ends.



Whats cheap about wanting a say in my own future and not being totally dominated by GCs who we do no trust. You will have the right to settle in Kyrenia or any where you wish, its obviously you do not want to live under TC administracion then why do you feel fit for me to live under yours???
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Postby shahmaran » Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:52 pm

I think, Piratis you are deliberately trying to dilute the analogy by again bringing in the unfounded "indigenous" crap that yo have no proof of, it is all you got so i am not surprised, it is the very foundation of your claims so i can understand why it is so hard for you to let go. If 1000 years is not enough for one to have rights on lands then there is no point talking to you anymore because there is no way out.

We have as much right here as you, so do the Kurds in Turkey as the rest of the country, the fact that you support their will for independence while dismissing ours is a very good example of your double standard understanding of "freedom" and "human rights". I guess its only OK to pretend to be such a righteous man when its not your country in question, I'm glad you have exposed your true self.
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Postby Piratis » Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:39 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
Piratis wrote:If you want to have "two rulers" in Cyprus, instead of one (the Cypriots people as a whole) then you can have independence in those villages that are TC only, or where TCs are the majority. Why the hell should Kerynia, Morfou, Famagusta, Lapithos etc etc which belong either exclusively or by their great majority to GCs be under your "rule" and not under our "rule"?

Don't give me cheap excuses VP. What you want is to take our land and have power way more than what proportionately belongs to you. You started a war in order to achieve this, but be sure this war will not end with you winning. This war will go on for as long as is needed until your illegal occupation of our country ends.



Whats cheap about wanting a say in my own future and not being totally dominated by GCs who we do no trust. You will have the right to settle in Kyrenia or any where you wish, its obviously you do not want to live under TC administracion then why do you feel fit for me to live under yours???


First of all nobody denied to you to have your proportional say for the future of this island.

Beyond this, if you do not like the fact that the majority of Cypriots are Greek, then you shouldn't have come to this island in the first place. We are not the ones who asked from you to come and live under our administration. On the contrary it is you who came here and in order to force your administration over us.

If you want to live under Turkish administration then go to Turkey. In Cyprus you will live under Cypriot administration, and yes the great majority of Cypriots are Greek Cypriots.

So I don't want you to live under my administration. What I want is our land back. You can't have your own state on land that belongs by 82% to us.
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