Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

A lot is made of the Enosis goal of the 50s. It is ironic that if the GCs had succeded the TCs would be in a much better position today than any other community of the island. Firstly they would have tremendous political clout as the deciding vote in all elections, local, regional, national and Euroelections. Under the Eu funding schemes they would receive funds for regional and communal development. In effect they would have more of everything than they have now. Strange but Rolandis is citing only the stubborness of one side, when what he says goes both ways.

[shahmaran]

I do not know how old you are Shah, but most of us here recall that from Monday July 15 till Friday of the same week the Greek Cypriots fought and to a large extent kept at bay the coup against the Cypriot government. Obviously it does not suit your mindset to admit that detail. The facts are there, and some people here, like your mate Zan, are always eager to attribute the thousands of civilian casualties to that fighting and not the Turkish invasion.

That detail aside, obejectively, the Greek Cypriots have proven their biological and political survivability in very tough times. They are infinitely better off today than they were at any time since 1200 AD. Not bad!

No doubt about that Nikitas, i mean show me one nation that is declining since 1200 AD.

Never the less, you deserve full respect, first of all just for being much older than me, and then for having lived through the horror and being here to tell the story, so my mindset can be pretty flexible as long as i don't think i am being taken for a fool.

However, i thought Sampson was overthrown BECAUSE of the Turkish invasion. If so, don't you think they deserve little more credit than simply being the "barbaric invaders", since they are anything but that for the TC's, because Sampson was appointed as President and was not exactly very fond of the TC existence on the island either and since you couldn't stop him from getting there, what makes you think you could have stopped him from wiping us out?

[shahmaran]

The Kurds are a MINORITY in an internationally recognized democratic country with an internationally recognized government, and are wishing to take land from 2 other countries other then Turkey in order to claim their independent land called Kurdistan.

Shah,

Although you raise an interesting argument with the above, it is very much flawed when it comes to Cyprus. The Kurds are where they were from hundreds of years. They are at the same location as before. They were not living all over Turkey and suddenly they all moved to the Eastern part of Turkey so that they can claim that part of Turkey as their new country. They have not kicked anyone of their land as the case has been in Cyprus. The TC's in Cyprus belong to every inch of Cyprus just as the GC's. We never had the North as ours. I know that's all you know, because of your age since you were born into that part and to you, the North has always been Turkish Cypriot land. At least that's how you were taught, I'm sure.

To be honest Kikapu, since you keep mentioning this let me first just make it clear that my family in general is pretty biased about the whole situation (surprisingly), i honestly have never been raised with horror stories about the past and apart from a few crash courses in school and the army i had to figure everything out myself, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the amount of shit flying in the air about the past either, which is actually very frustrating. So let alone convincing me of anything, the members of my family even dispute the matter amongst themselves causing pretty heated discussions at the dinner table from time to time.

I know the TC's don't all belong to the North, i presume it was strategically much more convenient for Turkey to hold the Northern section or for what other reason it might be i am not sure, not really relevant either but we have been here for centuries too and not necessarily always in the North.

So i do not see that much difference between the 2 scenarios in that sense.

Kurds don't all belong to the East either, they live ALL over Turkey and Iraq, Syria, Iran and Armenia, how ever mainly in the eastern section.

I believe they have drawn their map according to the concentration of their ethnic population around the region, hence why they come up with such a ridiculously huge map for the supposed Kurdistan.

The fact that they have not achieved their goal and are resorting to terrorist attacks is the reason why they have not kicked anyone out, (in reality many people did flee from the East in order to escape the random killings of the PKK) had they achieved their goal, who is to say that they would allow the minorities in the newly established Kurdistan or if anyone would actually like to stay there or leave, in which case leaving their properties for grabs. I very much doubt that life would go on as normal when the country breaks in half.

Would Kurdistan be accepted by the international community, i don't know, but if we assume it wont, that would mean they would end up in a similar situation as us, spending decades waiting in limbo for something to happen, and certainly being an illegal state occupying territory and properties illegally and maybe flooding in more Kurds from around the world as they have been doing to Kerkuk in order to change the demographics and overpower the Turkmens.

Clearly I'm not getting a reply from Piratis so maybe you might like to tell me if you would oppose their fight for "freedom" or not.

[Get Real!]

I believe they have drawn their map according to the concentration of their ethnic population around the region, hence why they come up with such a ridiculously huge map for the supposed Kurdistan.

If you want to talk about ridiculously large territorial claims you needn’t travel that far… just have a look at the Turkish Cypriot community’s claim on Cyprus!

[utu]

A lot is made of the Enosis goal of the 50s. It is ironic that if the GCs had succeded the TCs would be in a much better position today than any other community of the island. Firstly they would have tremendous political clout as the deciding vote in all elections, local, regional, national and Euroelections. Under the Eu funding schemes they would receive funds for regional and communal development. In effect they would have more of everything than they have now. Strange but Rolandis is citing only the stubborness of one side, when what he says goes both ways.

Interesting conjecture, Nikitas, but given that there was at that time a solid anti-Turkish feeling running through the Greek Cypriots, plus with those anti-Greek pogroms happening in Turkey at around the same time, would Greece have permitted the Turkish Cypriots to remain in Cyprus had Enosis succeeded?

[Nikitas]

Utu,

The fate of the Cypriots, of both communities would be tough had there been union with Greece in the 50s. Firstly becaue of the anticommunist obsession in post civil war Greece, and the fearful approach towards the Turkish and Moslem communities of Greece during those times. Still, even in those times Greece applied the one man one vote principle. Things are different now and the Turkish communities of northern Greece vote for local councils, regional administrators and can manage to return two or three MPs. In Cyprus they would return at least that many directly and they would control the overall vote. No one would hope to be elected to any office without TC support.

[Nikitas]

Shah,

As to there being nations worse off since 1200 AD. Well, Ghana used to be the richest British non Anglosaxon colony. In 1960 Ghana had a larger GDP than Singapore now it is much lower. Most African states are worse off now than they were in the past in economic terms. And there are other countries taht went from imperial status to small states in one generation, like Austria, Spain, Portugal etc.

THe view put forth is not a universal rule. It is a different way at looking at the situation of Cyprus using non Cypriot standards. Rolandis is seeing the situation as most of us and judges by the loss of territory and the de facto partition of the last 34 years.

[BC Numismatics]

What you lot are forgetting is that both Enosis & Taksim are braindead ideologies.Both Greece & Turkey owe the Cypriot people big time.The British are paying the Cypriot people through the employment of native Cypriots in the S.B.A.s,thus making a major contribution to the Cypriot economy.This won't change in the event that Cyprus becomes a federal republic.

Aidan.

[utu]

The S.B.A.'s though will be next on the list after the GC-TC split is finally solved..

[BC Numismatics]

Utu,the S.B.A.s are legally established entities as outlined in the 1959 Independence Agreement.Ceding them over would be illegal.

Aidan.