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The myth of isolation

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby zan » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:14 pm

miltiades wrote:
zan wrote:Do you guys understand anything you read..Talk about snow blindness :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Does the word "Partially to blame" mean anything to you???


Does the words "As long as they trade through the "RoC" " mean anything to you.???



The EU and the UN are talking about "Lifting isolation". Does that mean anything to you......

What the article is saying is that we can give up and leave everything to the "RoC" and the isolations are lifted...What F****ING isolation if it does not exist......

As per usual the Nazi highlights pieces she doesn't even understand and claims a victory but the only victory is for stupidity as the other Nazi human experimentalist does the honours and joins in the stupidity....


WE ARE NOT PART OF THE "RoC". We are part of the Zurich agreement and the CYPRUS REPUBLIC.......The "RoC" is an illegal entity that has been given temporary legality through errors......
What a mixed up article.....One minute it does not exist and then we are partly to blame for it......How the hell can it be both....... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

So this illegal entity that you refer to , the ROC has hoodwinked the entire world , numerous UN articles , the European Union , the Commonwealth , the entire number of Islamic nations , because all these nations recognise the legality of the ROC , but Turkey who invaded and occupied the North part of Cyprus has the audacity to tell the world , hey people , you are all fucking wrong , this so called Republic of Cyprus on whose soil I keep 40 thousand troops IS ILLEGAL !! ONLY THE TRNC IS LEGAL.What fucking nonsense Zan , what absurd suppositions !
I wonder if the 45 thousand or more T/Cs in possession of the ROC Passport , are themselves ILLEGAL !!
Having said all these I concede that the 1960 Zurich agreement should be respected by all , starting with Turkey who had the right to intervene in order to protect the island's independence as per the terms of the Zurich agreements but the minute she stayed longer than required then it is hypocritical to use the Zurich agreements as the "legal " means that constitute the ROC.


Miltiades
I have tried and tried to explain to you that the Akritas plan (That you have not heard of :roll: ) is responsible for the recognition of the "RoC" by default and never should have been. The "RoC" is illegal and so is the TRNC or both are legal...You cannot have it one way for one and another for the other. Makarios used Tpaps Akritas plan to stir up trouble and make the world and more importantly the UN believe it to be so and that the national guard could not contain the trouble, that you keep telling us never existed. Then the UN had no choice but to recognise any government that existed, which by coincidence was Makarios' :roll: :roll:, so that they could come in and stop the violence. Any decisions and resolutions that were passed by the UN after that was because of that hasty and false decision made by the UN. Your reognition all aroud the world was due to that one mistake by the UN and they have had no choice because of it to pass resolution after resolution in the "RoC"s favour after that. I will not accept that fait accomplis and neither should you if fairness is what you want.
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Postby Nikitas » Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:06 am

Situation Patata!

The potato fiasco proves a lot. The growers wanted to sell their potatoes. The TRUNC wanted to use the potatoes to make a political point. So they insisted that the export should be by their rules and not the EU's. Potato shipment lost, growers lost money. Thus the isolation was proved yet again.

One wonders, if the potatoes could be exported with a TRNC stamp, would they then accept the EU rule for refrigerated trucking? But of course! Which is exactly what the article is saying, that the TRNC wants to USE the economic isolation for political ends. Cynicism in its purest form.

And while we are accused of isolation and callousness there is that small matter of IDs, passports, employment, social security benefits, electricity and the list goes on. ALl this while GCs cannot operate even a kiosk in the north or sell a single potato let alone a truckfull. No doubt this too will be blamed on the Akritas plan and Enosis.
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Postby zan » Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:12 am

Nikitas wrote:Situation Patata!

The potato fiasco proves a lot. The growers wanted to sell their potatoes. The TRUNC wanted to use the potatoes to make a political point. So they insisted that the export should be by their rules and not the EU's. Potato shipment lost, growers lost money. Thus the isolation was proved yet again.

One wonders, if the potatoes could be exported with a TRNC stamp, would they then accept the EU rule for refrigerated trucking? But of course! Which is exactly what the article is saying, that the TRNC wants to USE the economic isolation for political ends. Cynicism in its purest form.

And while we are accused of isolation and callousness there is that small matter of IDs, passports, employment, social security benefits, electricity and the list goes on. ALl this while GCs cannot operate even a kiosk in the north or sell a single potato let alone a truckfull. No doubt this too will be blamed on the Akritas plan and Enosis.


Yes I am afraid so......When you fooled the world and the UN you had to take on the role of the Government that you said you were and that was for the whole of the island and all of the Cypriot people. Close the boarder and take back the Ids' and see how long it takes for us to get recognition.....If you cannot understand the political game then you should not play....You become a liability.
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Postby Marz » Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:40 am

Zan if your happy there, then stay there you have no benefit to us, in any way, you took the land for free you kicked people out of their homes.
Why do you demand more of the cYprus when you have nothing to offer back back, we have jobs tourism a great economy, services and infrastructure, you complain you dont get anything from us, but then you complain of isolation and embargos.
if you want something from GC well you need to offer something back to get those things you want you just cant have them for no reason, otherwise let Turkey kepp feeding you Bamyes.
After all these years Turkey or your people havent made any progress because you wait for Turkey and DEMAND us to help you after you have stolen our land and intimidate the population with military action.
You must be a real numskull.
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Postby zan » Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:32 am

Marz wrote:Zan if your happy there, then stay there you have no benefit to us, in any way, you took the land for free you kicked people out of their homes.
Why do you demand more of the cYprus when you have nothing to offer back back, we have jobs tourism a great economy, services and infrastructure, you complain you dont get anything from us, but then you complain of isolation and embargos.
if you want something from GC well you need to offer something back to get those things you want you just cant have them for no reason, otherwise let Turkey kepp feeding you Bamyes.
After all these years Turkey or your people havent made any progress because you wait for Turkey and DEMAND us to help you after you have stolen our land and intimidate the population with military action.
You must be a real numskull.


At least this one I an understand :lol: Straight out of school and showing us what they teach you there...Love it...You are capable of uniting the whole of the TC people more than I can with this rubbish and I thank you.....

Love and kisses
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Postby Marz » Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:19 pm

No problem ill teach you any time although kisses are a bit too much, maybe dinner first.

In this whole debate Zan your side doesnt have much to offer the GC people other than the occupied land, in which case if we really wanted it that much we wouldd have accepted the annan plan and givee you what you want.
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Postby observer » Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:34 pm

A week or so ago I was involved in a discussion on this forum with a bunch of GCs who were determined to prove that use of the ports in the North was illegal. That implies isolation.

Now they are trying to prove that we are not isolated.

Funny old world.
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Postby GreekForumer » Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:46 pm

paaul12 wrote:pantheman RAFAELLA

You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=q18HZVozrgk[/youtube]



:D :D


@1:07
"Killing over 25,000 innocent Turkish Cypriots and Brits"

25,000!!!

Paaul12, is that a fact or your opinion ?



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Postby Get Real! » Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:05 pm

Turkish Daily News article...

Turkish Cypriots isolating themselves

Clement Dodd
Is the isolation of the Turkish Cypriots a myth? Or, if it exists, has it been brought about by the Turkish Cypriots themselves? In a recent article in the Cyprus Mail the seasoned and balanced chief reporter, Jean Christou, presents the case. He gives the Greek Cypriot government's views on the subject, and also quotes the opinions of two academics. He notes the Greek Cypriot government's concern that ending isolation would greatly encourage the political independence of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (KKTC).

To start with the government, their case is essentially that it is not the Turkish Cypriots, but Turkey that is responsible for the economic and social isolation of the KKTC. This, the government explains, has been brought about in a number of ways, which Christou lists. First, Turkey has in the past prevented the Turkish Cypriots from obtaining Cyprus passports, identity cards and other documents that would have facilitated travel, and would have enabled them to obtain EU and other benefits. Also it has been Turkey that has been behind the rejection of confidence building measures because such measures could not promote the political recognition of the north. As for the depressed state of the economy in the KKTC, Turkey is responsible for that by introducing the unstable Turkish Lira as the currency. This has led to high inflation, economic instability, and other serious economic and social problems. In addition, the Turkish Cypriot economy has been inefficiently managed by Turkey. To underline the point the Greek Cypriot government emphasizes how much the Turkish Cypriots have benefited economically since the lifting [by the Turkish Cypriots, incidentally] of restrictions on movement in 2003, an enrichment of Turkish Cypriots enhanced, they say, by Cyprus' membership of the European Union. Clearly Turkey, they say, should not have prevented the Turkish Cypriots from joining the Cyprus delegation involved in EU accession negotiations. Moreover, Turkish Cypriots are now working in increasing numbers in the government controlled areas and enjoy a large range of benefits, including free medical care. The Greek Cypriot government also asserts it has strongly supported, and even proposed, EU financial assistance to the North, but there have been efforts to attach political stipulations to its release.

What does all this mean, we might ask? Clearly, in the Greek Cypriot government's view, if only Turkey had left the Turkish Cypriot minority to remain as a minority, with minority rights, how rich and happy they would be! The troublesome notion that man does not live by bread alone is quietly ignored, as is any suggestion that the Turkish Cypriots themselves in fact, have considerable control over their own affairs. One foreign diplomat observed, with obvious acerbity, that the Turkish Cypriots can indeed participate in anything and everything, as long as they do so under the Republic of Cyprus flag.

The two academics whose views are reported take a different line. Herbert Faustmann (Intercollege, Nicosia) claims, “The isolation of the Turkish Cypriots is, as a phrase, a political and propaganda tool.” Isolation is “partly inflicted on themselves [not by Turkey in this case] and they never mention that.” How, we may ask, have they done this damage to themselves? The answer is “by isolating themselves in 1983 with the unilateral declaration of independence.” Faustmann continues: “That's what triggered part of the isolation, but of course they keep a low profile about that. And the phrase, as it is used, also hides the demand for political equality.” This is odd. The Turkish Cypriots have never hidden their demand for political equality and the U.N. has long accepted it. If it were given real practical expression, the Turkish Cypriots would be free to open up their country to the world and make a very satisfactory living for themselves.

The second academic, James Ker-Lindsay, advances a similar idea, and is quoted as saying, “To be brutally honest the isolation of the Turkish Cypriots is in large part the fault of the Turkish Cypriots.” He goes on to assert that if Rauf Denktaş had not declared independence, “there wouldn't be a U.N. resolution declaring the KKTC illegal, because there would be no KKTC.” He continues by saying that although the Greek Cypriots had played a hard game in the EU, and had stood in the way of a number of measures that might (sic) have helped the Turkish Cypriots, a lot of other measures that the Turkish Cypriots blame on the Greek Cypriots were a result of U.N. Security Council resolutions that prevented other states from offering recognition. “There is no way past this,” he said.

This raises important issues, but two fairly simple points about embargoes can first be made. First, the embargoes on the Turkish Cypriots began before 1983 and were reinforced in particular under the presidency of Spyros Kyprianou that began in 1977. In 1979, the Turkish Cypriots called for them to be lifted. Secondly, major economic restrictions were placed on the Turkish Cypriot economy in 1994, long after 1983, when the European Court of Justice, in response to Greek Cypriot representations, ruled that Turkish Cypriot produce exported to the EU must have phytosanitary certificates and certificates of origin stamped by the Greek Cypriot authorities.

More important, it is true that the U.N. Security Council's decisions have prevented recognition of the Turkish Cypriots. We have to enquire, however, how those decisions came about. In the first place, in 1964 in Resolution 186, the U.N. Security Council treated the unconstitutional rump Greek Cypriot government as the government of the Republic of Cyprus. This was an illegal act by the U.N. Security Council, but it should not be forgotten that to bring it about the Greek Cypriots had campaigned extensively for recognition among the many new ex-colonial and non-aligned U.N. states and effectively lobbied the very sympathetic U.N. Secretary-General U Thant. The Makarios government was also making overtures to the Soviet Union that appeared to be threatening the British bases at a time when the Soviet Union was becoming powerful in the Middle East. Consequently Britain and the United States did not strenuously object to resolution 186. The United States was afraid lest Cyprus become another Cuba.

Later, between 1979 and 1983 Kyprianou's government, with the help of Greece, made intensive efforts to enroll the sympathy and support for their “plight” as a country emerging from colonial rule and suffering from a rebellious minority supported by a country, Turkey, in league with the imperialist West. This internationalizing of the Cyprus issue militated against the 1977 and 1979 high-level agreements made between the two sides to establish a federation. This campaign, and the ensuing, and very damaging, U.N. General Assembly resolution of May 13, 1983, greatly persuaded Denktaş that in pursuing federation the Turkish Cypriot state had to be on equal terms with the Greek Cypriot state. In terms of the 1960 Treaties both the KKTC and the Greek Cypriot state were illegal, but the U.N. Security Council, in its resolution 541 of Nov. 18, 1983, declared only the KKTC to be illegal, and called upon all states not to recognize it. As has been pointed out in learned legal opinions, the Security Council is a political, not a legal body. Venturing into the legal field, it could not legally condemn the Turkish Cypriot declaration of independence without also taking into account the prior illegality of the Greek Cypriot assumption of sovereignty over all of Cyprus. In short, the legal ruling of the U.N. Security Council cannot carry any weight. It was the very effective politicking of the Greek Cypriots as members of the UN, with the help of Greece, that brought about the declaration of independence and the subsequent politically inspired U.N. Security Council resolution 541, in the formulation of which Britain played a major role. It called upon all states not to recognize any Cypriot state other than the Republic of Cyprus. It was a political result of an unacknowledged alliance in the U.N. between the numerous non-aligned states and the western powers, the latter fearful, no doubt, of jeopardizing the important defense arrangements in Cyprus by opposing the Greek Cypriots. It resulted in a denial of the Turkish Cypriots' natural right to make a proper living for themselves, and to interact freely with the world in other ways. It is difficult to see how or why Turkey, or the Turkish Cypriots, were, or are, responsible for this unjust and damaging isolation, an unjustifiable denial of the human rights of the Turkish Cypriots.

http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/arti ... wsid=49415
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Postby RAFAELLA » Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:15 pm

GreekForumer wrote:
paaul12 wrote:pantheman RAFAELLA

You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.

@1:07
"Killing over 25,000 innocent Turkish Cypriots and Brits"

25,000!!!

Paaul12, is that a fact or your opinion ?

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GrF, do you really believe what they actually claim? :lol:
Yestarday it was 12.000, today is 25.000 and tomorrow most probably their propaganda will reach 50.000 or 100.000! ...who knows? :lol:
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