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Our biggest mistake was returning to the UK

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Postby GorillaGal » Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:52 pm

Johnson&Johnson wrote:I know 4 coupes who left cyprus in the last few years, all citing financial reasons, accompanied by the usual whining about how cyprus is no good, cypriots are rude, it's boring here, blah blah blah

all 4 are now making plans to return

they are far worse off abraod than they were here, and all of them miss the safety, friendliness of the pople and general lifestyle

work in cyprus is easy to find. although not well paid, if you stick to foreign and offshore companies you should do ok. and remember, you get what you give. work hard and show some commitment and the money will find you. if you are an over-educated prima donna who expects a hgh salary just because you boozed your way through eight years of university, then you might be in for a shock.

red tape for small businesses is minimal, so entrepreuners thrive out here. if you have a good idea, great execution and are competetive, you can do well

health care is OK. better than the US by far, and out here you are not one illness away from the poorhouse as you are in the states
lifestyle is second to none. i dont care what anyone says, and ive been all over the world


yes, but in the USA, you get better medical care. if you have the money (insurance), you live longer. if i was going to get sick, i'd rather be in the USA. you get what you pay for.
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Postby Bill » Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:10 pm

As for safety GG I'm big enough and at times can be ugly enough to look after my self BUT the level of street crime in my area was shocking .

I'm sure miltiades is aware of the Camden town area ~ granted not as bad as a few other inner London area's but it is bad .

The sound of police and ambulance vehicles is heard all night and day every few minutes ( average every 10 mins ) and they are responding mainly for non traffic incidents .

I have had three instances that have affected my personal safety that have been sorted out by aggression from me.

I have picked up off the floor two people that have been attacked after visiting the cash point on the main road and then travelling down our street ~ these were separate incidents

My next door neighbour was dragged out of his car when he opened his door to get out ~ beaten and left unconscious in the middle of the road minus his wallet ~ this was outside his own home :shock: I heard the noise and went out to help ~ had he been left where he was there was a strong possibility that he could have also been run over by a passing car :evil: .

There are always groups of youths hanging around at the end of the street where it connects with the main road with hoods and baseball caps pulled down covering half their face even on the hottest summer nights :? .

I suppose I could have moved to another area but why the hell should I .

Any way I'm now in Cyprus and believe me I feel so much safer :D

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Postby GorillaGal » Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:19 pm

Bill wrote:As for safety GG I'm big enough and at times can be ugly enough to look after my self BUT the level of street crime in my area was shocking .

I'm sure miltiades is aware of the Camden town area ~ granted not as bad as a few other inner London area's but it is bad .

The sound of police and ambulance vehicles is heard all night and day every few minutes ( average every 10 mins ) and they are responding mainly for non traffic incidents .

I have had three instances that have affected my personal safety that have been sorted out by aggression from me.

I have picked up off the floor two people that have been attacked after visiting the cash point on the main road and then travelling down our street ~ these were separate incidents

My next door neighbour was dragged out of his car when he opened his door to get out ~ beaten and left unconscious in the middle of the road minus his wallet ~ this was outside his own home :shock: I heard the noise and went out to help ~ had he been left where he was there was a strong possibility that he could have also been run over by a passing car :evil: .

There are always groups of youths hanging around at the end of the street where it connects with the main road with hoods and baseball caps pulled down covering half their face even on the hottest summer nights :? .

I suppose I could have moved to another area but why the hell should I .

Any way I'm now in Cyprus and believe me I feel so much safer :D

Bill


bill, i take it these are all things that happened in the UK? was this in Camden?-- an area more populated than CY (per capita)?
you said you could have moved, "but why should i?" and yet you did, right to CY! Lucky for them, i most certainly would love to have you as my neighbor!
however, once again, i will state that "saftey" has alot more meaning that just being able to go around your neighborhood without the fear of some thugs beating you up.
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Postby phoenix » Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:54 pm

GorillaGal wrote:
Johnson&Johnson wrote:I know 4 coupes who left cyprus in the last few years, all citing financial reasons, accompanied by the usual whining about how cyprus is no good, cypriots are rude, it's boring here, blah blah blah

all 4 are now making plans to return

they are far worse off abraod than they were here, and all of them miss the safety, friendliness of the pople and general lifestyle

work in cyprus is easy to find. although not well paid, if you stick to foreign and offshore companies you should do ok. and remember, you get what you give. work hard and show some commitment and the money will find you. if you are an over-educated prima donna who expects a hgh salary just because you boozed your way through eight years of university, then you might be in for a shock.

red tape for small businesses is minimal, so entrepreuners thrive out here. if you have a good idea, great execution and are competetive, you can do well

health care is OK. better than the US by far, and out here you are not one illness away from the poorhouse as you are in the states
lifestyle is second to none. i dont care what anyone says, and ive been all over the world


yes, but in the USA, you get better medical care. if you have the money (insurance), you live longer. if i was going to get sick, i'd rather be in the USA. you get what you pay for.


GG, Life expectancy in the USA is less than in Cyprus.

Here are the WHO statistics;

Cyprus:
Total population: 835,000


Gross national income per capita (PPP international $): 22,230


Life expectancy at birth m/f (years): 77/82

Healthy life expectancy at birth m/f (years, 2002): 67/68


Probability of dying under five (per 1 000 live births): 5


Probability of dying between 15 and 60 years m/f (per 1 000 population): 94/45


USA:
Total population: 298,213,000


Gross national income per capita (PPP international $): 41,950


Life expectancy at birth m/f (years): 75/80


Healthy life expectancy at birth m/f (years, 2002): 67/71


Probability of dying under five (per 1 000 live births): 8


Probability of dying between 15 and 60 years m/f (per 1 000 population): 137/81

~~~~

Health care in Cyprus is generally better, whether you have the money or not.
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Postby Bill » Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:31 pm

GorillaGal wrote: bill, i take it these are all things that happened in the UK? was this in Camden?-- an area more populated than CY (per capita)?
you said you could have moved, "but why should i?" and yet you did, right to CY! Lucky for them, i most certainly would love to have you as my neighbor!
however, once again, i will state that "saftey" has alot more meaning that just being able to go around your neighborhood without the fear of some thugs beating you up.


Yes in the UK ~ all in Camden Town London and as there are over 10 million in London I would say some area's are highly populated.

In moving I meant moving out of the area ~ moving to Cyprus was always my intention once I stopped work .

I can't agree with your definition of safety ~ I want to be safe in my street and my neighbourhood and to be honest what is happening in the rest of the world is of a secondary consideration to me and mine personally ~ I want my friends, family and neighbours to be able to go about their life and business safely and not having to look over their shoulders every few minutes.

Sadly crime ( in certain area's ) is virtually out of control and the police are struggling ~ they are hampered by so many restrictions and form filling that even stopping someone acting suspiciously becomes a major time consuming task let alone dealing with the crime actually taking place

In a way you are lucky if you don't have a level of street crime in your local area that we do in the London and larger cities in the UK

Apart from 9 11 you also haven't experienced much danger in the US from a global threat ~ there are a lot of folk that now will not use public transport after recent terrorist activities in London and the city is still on high alert .

So can you give me your definition of safety as you see it .

Bill ~~ feeling safe in Cyprus.
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Postby dinos » Sun Feb 03, 2008 5:38 pm

GorillaGal wrote:yes, but in the USA, you get better medical care. if you have the money (insurance), you live longer. if i was going to get sick, i'd rather be in the USA. you get what you pay for.


GG, I have two aunts that are doctors (one was a trauma doctor) as well as an uncle that's a retired ob/gyn / surgeon. Before a few years ago, anybody in Larnaca that ever needed emergency obstetric surgery or attention in the emergency room was damned lucky to have my relatives work on them. They have a real passion for what they do and are not tormented by having to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in malpractice premiums each year.

Contrast this with doctors in the US that amputate incorrect limbs and appendages, forget surgical equipment / bandages in their patients, are arrogant, make all kinds of stupid mistakes and then somehow have the audacity to claim that they're the best in the world. Any way you cut it, you are safer by far catching a plane and seeing a doctor in Cyprus than seeing a doctor in the US.
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Postby GorillaGal » Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:06 pm

dinos wrote:
GorillaGal wrote:yes, but in the USA, you get better medical care. if you have the money (insurance), you live longer. if i was going to get sick, i'd rather be in the USA. you get what you pay for.


GG, I have two aunts that are doctors (one was a trauma doctor) as well as an uncle that's a retired ob/gyn / surgeon. Before a few years ago, anybody in Larnaca that ever needed emergency obstetric surgery or attention in the emergency room was damned lucky to have my relatives work on them. They have a real passion for what they do and are not tormented by having to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in malpractice premiums each year.

Contrast this with doctors in the US that amputate incorrect limbs and appendages, forget surgical equipment / bandages in their patients, are arrogant, make all kinds of stupid mistakes and then somehow have the audacity to claim that they're the best in the world. Any way you cut it, you are safer by far catching a plane and seeing a doctor in Cyprus than seeing a doctor in the US.


nope, sorry, can't agree with you dinos on the medical side of things. there are more doctors, more surgeries done here than in CY, so of course the screw ups would be more here.
in fact, i think the fact that malpractice is so high here keeps the doctors more on thier toes. it will help weed out the ones who shouldn't be practicing.
as in all, there is good and bad in everything.... that means doctors too, and it's a global thing, not just a USA, or Cypriot issue.
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Postby Niki » Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:14 pm

GorillaGal wrote:
dinos wrote:
GorillaGal wrote:yes, but in the USA, you get better medical care. if you have the money (insurance), you live longer. if i was going to get sick, i'd rather be in the USA. you get what you pay for.


GG, I have two aunts that are doctors (one was a trauma doctor) as well as an uncle that's a retired ob/gyn / surgeon. Before a few years ago, anybody in Larnaca that ever needed emergency obstetric surgery or attention in the emergency room was damned lucky to have my relatives work on them. They have a real passion for what they do and are not tormented by having to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in malpractice premiums each year.

Contrast this with doctors in the US that amputate incorrect limbs and appendages, forget surgical equipment / bandages in their patients, are arrogant, make all kinds of stupid mistakes and then somehow have the audacity to claim that they're the best in the world. Any way you cut it, you are safer by far catching a plane and seeing a doctor in Cyprus than seeing a doctor in the US.


nope, sorry, can't agree with you dinos on the medical side of things. there are more doctors, more surgeries done here than in CY, so of course the screw ups would be more here.
in fact, i think the fact that malpractice is so high here keeps the doctors more on thier toes. it will help weed out the ones who shouldn't be practicing.
as in all, there is good and bad in everything.... that means doctors too, and it's a global thing, not just a USA, or Cypriot issue.


It's probably best we all think the medical care is better or the risk of crime is lower where we live for peace of mind....so you're all right!! :D
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Postby dinos » Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:33 pm

GorillaGal wrote:
dinos wrote:
GorillaGal wrote:yes, but in the USA, you get better medical care. if you have the money (insurance), you live longer. if i was going to get sick, i'd rather be in the USA. you get what you pay for.


GG, I have two aunts that are doctors (one was a trauma doctor) as well as an uncle that's a retired ob/gyn / surgeon. Before a few years ago, anybody in Larnaca that ever needed emergency obstetric surgery or attention in the emergency room was damned lucky to have my relatives work on them. They have a real passion for what they do and are not tormented by having to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in malpractice premiums each year.

Contrast this with doctors in the US that amputate incorrect limbs and appendages, forget surgical equipment / bandages in their patients, are arrogant, make all kinds of stupid mistakes and then somehow have the audacity to claim that they're the best in the world. Any way you cut it, you are safer by far catching a plane and seeing a doctor in Cyprus than seeing a doctor in the US.


nope, sorry, can't agree with you dinos on the medical side of things. there are more doctors, more surgeries done here than in CY, so of course the screw ups would be more here.
in fact, i think the fact that malpractice is so high here keeps the doctors more on thier toes. it will help weed out the ones who shouldn't be practicing.
as in all, there is good and bad in everything.... that means doctors too, and it's a global thing, not just a USA, or Cypriot issue.


Stating that more mistakes can happen because more work is being done is not a valid comparison to me - we're talking about people, not manufacturing widgets. Amputating the wrong leg due to workload just doesn't fly with me. It takes two seconds - left vs right. And all the gangrene on the bad one might just be another giveaway.

Poor workmanship and greed both contribute to high malpractice insurance and this fosters an escalating condition whereby the doctors have to turn more and more caseload over in order to stay afloat. This doesn't keep doctors on their toes - it increases the probability for mistakes to occur due to burnout.

Moreover, that doctor out here didn't seem put off by his insurance premiums as he reused syringes for thousands of people and spread Hepatitis all over Long Island... Some people are just @ssholes, but this is what the system encourages, and this is what people have to contend with when looking for doctors here.
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Postby Johnson&Johnson » Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:09 pm

Without hijacking this thread into a Cyprus Vs USA discussion, I have to agree with Dino (and not just because he's a friend)

America has it's big advantages as a place to live, but I don't think that health care is one of them. In fact it's the main reason why I am not living there right now and why I would not move there in future.

Anyway most doctors these days in the US are not even 'American' - you have Indians, Filipinos, all kinds of nationalities. So whats the big deal. Does that mean we could get US-style healthcare in the Punjab or Iloilo ?

Cyprus is not bad. There are lots of doctors and dentists of all kinds. You have to sift through them to find one you can trust and are comfortable with. They charge you a tenner or fifteen quid or sometimes nothing if you are a regular customer and you take up only a few minutes of their time. My doctor came to my wedding, as did my dentist. We have become close with both of them over the years, and that relationship is priceless. If we are sick and they cannot fix us up, they tell us honestly where to go and what to do or recommend someone they trust who can put us on the mend. OK, I do not know if I would have major surgery here if my life was in danger - luckily my insurance allows us to be treated in any country of my choice, all expenses paid - but for the everyday stuff doctors here are very satisfactory. The hospitals too are getting better, slowly slowly.

If you want my honest opinion, the UK and France have got the best doctors and healthcare system in the world. (I know I know, the NHS is overworked and underfunded, doctors are sleepwalking through 36 hour shifts, etc etc. But I still rate it as the best. And it's free)

That's just my opinion, and observations gleaned from my own personal experience.

Feel free to shoot me down in flames.
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