Cyprus-Forum.com

[humanist]

Can someone please clarify a point for me?

To whom exactly does the RoC provide Republic of Cyprus passports and ID cards?

Are children of settlers provided with these documents? How does the RoC determine who is Turkish speaking Cypriot and who is not?

[zan]

Just want to apologise to everyone for my language on this thread.....Not the rest of what I said but the swearing....

[Nikitas]

Humanist,

To get a passport you must be registered as a citizen and your parents etc verified. The government employees refer to the older records and papers of the parents. If a child has one parent who is Cypriot they get nationality.

By some quirk of buraucracy I cannot register my wife as Cypriot because being married for 27 years is not enough, we must live in Cyprus together for three years to prove she did not marry me for the nationality alone!!!!!

[phoenix]

There is external and internal business. Assuming there is isolation as you say, which has not stopped the selling of GC properties to foreign investors who manage to get there despite the embargoes, that leaves internal business. That internal business is in the hands of an oligarchy and that is the major problem.

Shake off the Turkish stranglehold first and then complain about what the RoC is doing to you, assuming it is doing anything to you.

You talk about embargoes but all kinds of foreign dignitaries and delegations manage to make their way to the TRNC, the EU has offices there, you operate two ports and an airport. Produce from the TRNC is finding its way to Munich and London fruit markets.

Perhaps the problems is not any embargo but the inability to create wealth. And that has nothing to do with embargoes.

Your imposed isolation allows Turkey the opportunity to have financial control over the TRNC, do you realize this?

If we had direct flights and tourism flourished to its full potential we woudl not need to look to Turkey for support and become less financially dependent, do you bite the hand that feeds you? If you allowed us to feed ourselves then we could turn around to Turkey and hold on the GCs also have rights but for now you keeping us isolated means we are at the mercy of Turkey, so now do you realize you are cutting off your nose despite your face?

VP, this is the most positive thing I have ever heard you say, Bravo.

But really, do you really mean that you would embrace the RoC or your GC brothers if you were able to self sufficient?

Somehow, I am finding hard to believe that you really do mean that. I think you would still look to turkey, beacause, I don't think you honestly have the political or military power to do otherwise. So in actual fact we would be even worst off.

I would like to believe what you are saying, but when I get Zan and others who are constantly tellings where to get off, I think is all just a con trick.

heres to hope though

Pantheman read what VP is saying again ... he is the craftiest of sods .....

Your imposed isolation allows Turkey the opportunity to have financial control over the TRNC, do you realize this?

He is still playing the blame game.
As though they have a choice and only turn to Turkey because the RoC is isolating them.

This is the first and main fallacy.
They have no choice.
Turkey has captured them as hostages. Turkey calls the shots, and supplies them with their thinking via propaganda.

VP will keep blaming the RoC, whilst meanwhile, accepting Turkey's didact.

[humanist]

Humanist,

To get a passport you must be registered as a citizen and your parents etc verified. The government employees refer to the older records and papers of the parents. If a child has one parent who is Cypriot they get nationality.

By some quirk of buraucracy I cannot register my wife as Cypriot because being married for 27 years is not enough, we must live in Cyprus together for three years to prove she did not marry me for the nationality alone!!!!!

Thank you Nikitas, well no one said bureaucracy ever made sense ........ perhaps one day soon you will move to your hme town of Famagusta and the she can obtain her long overdue Cypriot citizenship.

as per above ... I am assuming that the children of some of the first settlers in the occupied area who may now have children of their own would not be counted as Cypriot yeah???

[Kikapu]

zan this only makes us TCs more determined to want agreed partition, we took to the streets and supported the only plan before us to resolve this problem what did the GCs do tell us where to stick it and proceeded to demonize a plan which would have given them Maraş and gotten rid of the Turkish army. What have they done over the last 4 years? absolutely nothing.

Assimilation with Turkey a country which for good or bad has supported us for 34 years is better than assismilation with GCs who have brought us nothing but anquish fear and pain, what you GCs have to realize is that our population increases and you will have to negotiate with people who are more Turkish than Cypriots, choice is yours.

VP,

zan this only makes us TCs more determined to want agreed partition,

Since Turkey is being rejected by France and Germany for a full EU membership openly, there are handful of other countries who are in the "closet" at the moment who also share the same view. This move only gives Turkey 2 options left, to go for a "privileged membership" in hopes of becoming a full member in the future once Turkey becomes more open and Democratic or stay out of Europe for ever, so what all this means is, that Turkey has a Big Hill to climb that has been put in front of her. What does all this means to the "TRNC".?? The way I see it, they have lost any leveraged they may have had to have anything resembling a BBF or the AP. Having lost the upper hand, any "agreed Partition" proposals needs to come from the "TRNC" to the RoC and not the other way around.

Time is and legality is on the RoC's side, so what ever "agreed Partition" that the "TRNC" may want, should be made sooner rather than later, in hopes that it will be accepted by the RoC. At this point in time, I would caution the "TRNC" to keep their long "we want" list to a more reasonable short list of important issues and to the point. Unless the TC's go back to the 1960 Constitution, they should forget about asking for a 50-50 power sharing or a veto power. 75% GC's gave a resounding NO to this idea in 2004 and those numbers have not lessened since then, no matter who is elected as the next President of the RoC.

Keeping the status quo as the "TRNC" may want to pressure the RoC to meet them on their demands from the long list of "we want", is no longer going to cut it. Turkey has been put on notice that her only option of rubbing elbows with Europe is through a "privileged membership" and nothing else, and even that proposal needs a non-veto support from the RoC. So in reality, everything has changed for Turkey. They are now at the mercy of the RoC for the first time since many other EU members will gladly give Turkey a "privileged membership" over full EU membership. Cyprus does not have to go along with the rest to give a "YES" vote unless she gets what she wants, and she has proven this very clearly standing her ground with the Kosovo issue, who has the backing of major players in the world. Turkey or the "TRNC" should be so lucky to have the same support that has been promised to Kosovo.

Turkey is now at much weaker position to demand very much from the RoC than she was only few days ago. Until Turkey declares unequivocally that she wants to stay in Asia, the "TRNC" has no power to make any demands at all from the RoC, and even then, in order to have the embargoes and isolation lifted to make room for a full recognition, will come at a big cost. They would need to return almost half of the land that is being occupied now by Turkey. Some in the TRNC" say foolishly, that they would rather keep the present situation than return to the RoC. Well, it is their choice to keep it the way things are now, but it only means digging a bigger and deeper hole for themselves with the passing of time.

As reported, TC's are fleeing the "TRNC" by large numbers for a better future elsewhere. They have had enough of the promises of Denktash and corrupted politicians. They see the reality and getting out while they can, while they still see themselves as citizens of the RoC and a EU citizens. They understand what it means to be part of Europe and not be part of an illegal state. It is all these factors may be the reason as to why new recruits of settlers are needed to be made "TC citizens" to combat the loss of indigenous TC's. Of course, the True TC's can never be replaced, since the "new citizens" will never be accepted as TC's to be used in any negotiations. It is nothing more than a fantasy and fraud.

The "TRNC" wants to blame the RoC for imposing isolation on them. In reality, isolation have resulted from unilateral declaration of Independence by trying to build a "state" within a State on stolen land. This is the punishment imposed on the "TRNC" by the World Body and no one else. Even the most "unethical" countries around the world, are not supporting to lift the isolation. So much has been made of the 2008 being the year where the "TRNC" will become the center of the world's attention and that it will become part of the "World Body", but once again, promises are being made, that cannot be kept.

With Turkey's assured refusal to become a EU member made clear by Germany and France now, would have spelt major problems had the AP was accepted in 2004. At this juncture, Turkey would have walked away from any agreement she may have agreed to, as a "punishment" for her refusal entry into the EU, since there would have been no incentives for her not to. It would have caused a major disruption into every one's life as well as intensify for further bloodshed. The AP was not a solution for peace, but only a solution for the "TRNC" and Turkey's EU bid. Given where we are today with what Turkey is facing, even possibly over throwing the elected government by the Turkish Military, Cyprus would have been in much worse situation that we are now. These new developments will no doubt will help PapaD in the upcoming elections for his rejection of the AP in 2004. Over all, the TC's are the major loser in all this. They are now a minority in the "TRNC" as more settlers are moving in to replace indigenous TC's. The GC's are losers for having settlers occupy some of their land, but truth be said, that collectively, it is all the True Cypriots who are the losers in all this.

The TC's no longer have a voice in the "TRNC" since the voice is only coming from Turkey. Soon, Turkey's voice will be coming through the "TRNC" ballot boxes. The only place left for indigenous TC's to be part of Cyprus, is now the RoC, unless Turkey sees it as not being in her best interest anymore to continue with the occupation and supporting a "welfare state" that has not given her anything in return but problems. What may have been once a "bargaining chip" for her EU membership, the "TRNC" may be nothing more than a "White Elephant" for her now. She may just cut her loses and stop throwing "good money after bad", and try to at least get a "privileged membership" from the EU, with a non-veto from the RoC, than get nothing at all for all her troubles for the last 34 years..

[T_C]

No use giving us horror stories Kikapu...let's just see what happens and then we'll talk...

And what are you talking about? "Even the most "unethical" countries around the world, are not supporting to lift the isolation". Did you read the ICG report? You know the one you claimed to be "biased"

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.ph ... &archive=1

Furthermore it's YOUR SIDE no one seems to be doing any favours for...it's YOU who should be worried not the other way round mate...it's shocking how you keep trying to scare us while ignoring whats going on on the ground...

Sorry but I'm gonna have to call your bluff. But we'll have to wait till after the elections to find out whats likely to happen....

[T_C]

Another one...the last sentence says it all really....

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.ph ... 8&cat_id=1

[Viewpoint]

zan this only makes us TCs more determined to want agreed partition, we took to the streets and supported the only plan before us to resolve this problem what did the GCs do tell us where to stick it and proceeded to demonize a plan which would have given them Maraş and gotten rid of the Turkish army. What have they done over the last 4 years? absolutely nothing.

Assimilation with Turkey a country which for good or bad has supported us for 34 years is better than assismilation with GCs who have brought us nothing but anquish fear and pain, what you GCs have to realize is that our population increases and you will have to negotiate with people who are more Turkish than Cypriots, choice is yours.

VP,

zan this only makes us TCs more determined to want agreed partition,

Since Turkey is being rejected by France and Germany for a full EU membership openly, there are handful of other countries who are in the "closet" at the moment who also share the same view. This move only gives Turkey 2 options left, to go for a "privileged membership" in hopes of becoming a full member in the future once Turkey becomes more open and Democratic or stay out of Europe for ever, so what all this means is, that Turkey has a Big Hill to climb that has been put in front of her. What does all this means to the "TRNC".?? The way I see it, they have lost any leveraged they may have had to have anything resembling a BBF or the AP. Having lost the upper hand, any "agreed Partition" proposals needs to come from the "TRNC" to the RoC and not the other way around.

Time is and legality is on the RoC's side, so what ever "agreed Partition" that the "TRNC" may want, should be made sooner rather than later, in hopes that it will be accepted by the RoC. At this point in time, I would caution the "TRNC" to keep their long "we want" list to a more reasonable short list of important issues and to the point. Unless the TC's go back to the 1960 Constitution, they should forget about asking for a 50-50 power sharing or a veto power. 75% GC's gave a resounding NO to this idea in 2004 and those numbers have not lessened since then, no matter who is elected as the next President of the RoC.

Keeping the status quo as the "TRNC" may want to pressure the RoC to meet them on their demands from the long list of "we want", is no longer going to cut it. Turkey has been put on notice that her only option of rubbing elbows with Europe is through a "privileged membership" and nothing else, and even that proposal needs a non-veto support from the RoC. So in reality, everything has changed for Turkey. They are now at the mercy of the RoC for the first time since many other EU members will gladly give Turkey a "privileged membership" over full EU membership. Cyprus does not have to go along with the rest to give a "YES" vote unless she gets what she wants, and she has proven this very clearly standing her ground with the Kosovo issue, who has the backing of major players in the world. Turkey or the "TRNC" should be so lucky to have the same support that has been promised to Kosovo.

Turkey is now at much weaker position to demand very much from the RoC than she was only few days ago. Until Turkey declares unequivocally that she wants to stay in Asia, the "TRNC" has no power to make any demands at all from the RoC, and even then, in order to have the embargoes and isolation lifted to make room for a full recognition, will come at a big cost. They would need to return almost half of the land that is being occupied now by Turkey. Some in the TRNC" say foolishly, that they would rather keep the present situation than return to the RoC. Well, it is their choice to keep it the way things are now, but it only means digging a bigger and deeper hole for themselves with the passing of time.

As reported, TC's are fleeing the "TRNC" by large numbers for a better future elsewhere. They have had enough of the promises of Denktash and corrupted politicians. They see the reality and getting out while they can, while they still see themselves as citizens of the RoC and a EU citizens. They understand what it means to be part of Europe and not be part of an illegal state. It is all these factors may be the reason as to why new recruits of settlers are needed to be made "TC citizens" to combat the loss of indigenous TC's. Of course, the True TC's can never be replaced, since the "new citizens" will never be accepted as TC's to be used in any negotiations. It is nothing more than a fantasy and fraud.

The "TRNC" wants to blame the RoC for imposing isolation on them. In reality, isolation have resulted from unilateral declaration of Independence by trying to build a "state" within a State on stolen land. This is the punishment imposed on the "TRNC" by the World Body and no one else. Even the most "unethical" countries around the world, are not supporting to lift the isolation. So much has been made of the 2008 being the year where the "TRNC" will become the center of the world's attention and that it will become part of the "World Body", but once again, promises are being made, that cannot be kept.

With Turkey's assured refusal to become a EU member made clear by Germany and France now, would have spelt major problems had the AP was accepted in 2004. At this juncture, Turkey would have walked away from any agreement she may have agreed to, as a "punishment" for her refusal entry into the EU, since there would have been no incentives for her not to. It would have caused a major disruption into every one's life as well as intensify for further bloodshed. The AP was not a solution for peace, but only a solution for the "TRNC" and Turkey's EU bid. Given where we are today with what Turkey is facing, even possibly over throwing the elected government by the Turkish Military, Cyprus would have been in much worse situation that we are now. These new developments will no doubt will help PapaD in the upcoming elections for his rejection of the AP in 2004. Over all, the TC's are the major loser in all this. They are now a minority in the "TRNC" as more settlers are moving in to replace indigenous TC's. The GC's are losers for having settlers occupy some of their land, but truth be said, that collectively, it is all the True Cypriots who are the losers in all this.

The TC's no longer have a voice in the "TRNC" since the voice is only coming from Turkey. Soon, Turkey's voice will be coming through the "TRNC" ballot boxes. The only place left for indigenous TC's to be part of Cyprus, is now the RoC, unless Turkey sees it as not being in her best interest anymore to continue with the occupation and supporting a "welfare state" that has not given her anything in return but problems. What may have been once a "bargaining chip" for her EU membership, the "TRNC" may be nothing more than a "White Elephant" for her now. She may just cut her loses and stop throwing "good money after bad", and try to at least get a "privileged membership" from the EU, with a non-veto from the RoC, than get nothing at all for all her troubles for the last 34 years..

This post rubber stamps my opinion the Kikapu is a GC, he throws in one line about the loss of GCs to try and throw us off but such a post can only be written by someone who is not a TC. The terminology and technique, the undertones and concentration of problem for the TRNC reveal everything, you have to be blind not to see it.

[Kikapu]

zan this only makes us TCs more determined to want agreed partition, we took to the streets and supported the only plan before us to resolve this problem what did the GCs do tell us where to stick it and proceeded to demonize a plan which would have given them Maraş and gotten rid of the Turkish army. What have they done over the last 4 years? absolutely nothing.

Assimilation with Turkey a country which for good or bad has supported us for 34 years is better than assismilation with GCs who have brought us nothing but anquish fear and pain, what you GCs have to realize is that our population increases and you will have to negotiate with people who are more Turkish than Cypriots, choice is yours.

VP,

zan this only makes us TCs more determined to want agreed partition,

Since Turkey is being rejected by France and Germany for a full EU membership openly, there are handful of other countries who are in the "closet" at the moment who also share the same view. This move only gives Turkey 2 options left, to go for a "privileged membership" in hopes of becoming a full member in the future once Turkey becomes more open and Democratic or stay out of Europe for ever, so what all this means is, that Turkey has a Big Hill to climb that has been put in front of her. What does all this means to the "TRNC".?? The way I see it, they have lost any leveraged they may have had to have anything resembling a BBF or the AP. Having lost the upper hand, any "agreed Partition" proposals needs to come from the "TRNC" to the RoC and not the other way around.

Time is and legality is on the RoC's side, so what ever "agreed Partition" that the "TRNC" may want, should be made sooner rather than later, in hopes that it will be accepted by the RoC. At this point in time, I would caution the "TRNC" to keep their long "we want" list to a more reasonable short list of important issues and to the point. Unless the TC's go back to the 1960 Constitution, they should forget about asking for a 50-50 power sharing or a veto power. 75% GC's gave a resounding NO to this idea in 2004 and those numbers have not lessened since then, no matter who is elected as the next President of the RoC.

Keeping the status quo as the "TRNC" may want to pressure the RoC to meet them on their demands from the long list of "we want", is no longer going to cut it. Turkey has been put on notice that her only option of rubbing elbows with Europe is through a "privileged membership" and nothing else, and even that proposal needs a non-veto support from the RoC. So in reality, everything has changed for Turkey. They are now at the mercy of the RoC for the first time since many other EU members will gladly give Turkey a "privileged membership" over full EU membership. Cyprus does not have to go along with the rest to give a "YES" vote unless she gets what she wants, and she has proven this very clearly standing her ground with the Kosovo issue, who has the backing of major players in the world. Turkey or the "TRNC" should be so lucky to have the same support that has been promised to Kosovo.

Turkey is now at much weaker position to demand very much from the RoC than she was only few days ago. Until Turkey declares unequivocally that she wants to stay in Asia, the "TRNC" has no power to make any demands at all from the RoC, and even then, in order to have the embargoes and isolation lifted to make room for a full recognition, will come at a big cost. They would need to return almost half of the land that is being occupied now by Turkey. Some in the TRNC" say foolishly, that they would rather keep the present situation than return to the RoC. Well, it is their choice to keep it the way things are now, but it only means digging a bigger and deeper hole for themselves with the passing of time.

As reported, TC's are fleeing the "TRNC" by large numbers for a better future elsewhere. They have had enough of the promises of Denktash and corrupted politicians. They see the reality and getting out while they can, while they still see themselves as citizens of the RoC and a EU citizens. They understand what it means to be part of Europe and not be part of an illegal state. It is all these factors may be the reason as to why new recruits of settlers are needed to be made "TC citizens" to combat the loss of indigenous TC's. Of course, the True TC's can never be replaced, since the "new citizens" will never be accepted as TC's to be used in any negotiations. It is nothing more than a fantasy and fraud.

The "TRNC" wants to blame the RoC for imposing isolation on them. In reality, isolation have resulted from unilateral declaration of Independence by trying to build a "state" within a State on stolen land. This is the punishment imposed on the "TRNC" by the World Body and no one else. Even the most "unethical" countries around the world, are not supporting to lift the isolation. So much has been made of the 2008 being the year where the "TRNC" will become the center of the world's attention and that it will become part of the "World Body", but once again, promises are being made, that cannot be kept.

With Turkey's assured refusal to become a EU member made clear by Germany and France now, would have spelt major problems had the AP was accepted in 2004. At this juncture, Turkey would have walked away from any agreement she may have agreed to, as a "punishment" for her refusal entry into the EU, since there would have been no incentives for her not to. It would have caused a major disruption into every one's life as well as intensify for further bloodshed. The AP was not a solution for peace, but only a solution for the "TRNC" and Turkey's EU bid. Given where we are today with what Turkey is facing, even possibly over throwing the elected government by the Turkish Military, Cyprus would have been in much worse situation that we are now. These new developments will no doubt will help PapaD in the upcoming elections for his rejection of the AP in 2004. Over all, the TC's are the major loser in all this. They are now a minority in the "TRNC" as more settlers are moving in to replace indigenous TC's. The GC's are losers for having settlers occupy some of their land, but truth be said, that collectively, it is all the True Cypriots who are the losers in all this.

The TC's no longer have a voice in the "TRNC" since the voice is only coming from Turkey. Soon, Turkey's voice will be coming through the "TRNC" ballot boxes. The only place left for indigenous TC's to be part of Cyprus, is now the RoC, unless Turkey sees it as not being in her best interest anymore to continue with the occupation and supporting a "welfare state" that has not given her anything in return but problems. What may have been once a "bargaining chip" for her EU membership, the "TRNC" may be nothing more than a "White Elephant" for her now. She may just cut her loses and stop throwing "good money after bad", and try to at least get a "privileged membership" from the EU, with a non-veto from the RoC, than get nothing at all for all her troubles for the last 34 years..

This post rubber stamps my opinion the Kikapu is a GC, he throws in one line about the loss of GCs to try and throw us off but such a post can only be written by someone who is not a TC. The terminology and technique, the undertones and concentration of problem for the TRNC reveal everything, you have to be blind not to see it.

Once again VP is trying his "Hell Mary Pass" to try and make a connection with his GC labeling. Just for the record, it can only be an "incomplete pass". I can say this very confidently, because you have not disputed any of my points as being not being plausible. If you think Germany's and France's stance regarding Turkey's EU bid was a positive, then give us your version of how you see thing developing down the road.

I wanted Turkey in the EU, but I also see Turkey losing her "trump card" by holding onto the "TRNC" to get her there. Now she has less to gain from the EU, but it is still better than nothing. Unfortunately for Turkey, the RoC can still block her. This is why I think, that Turkey is now at much weaker position than she was before few days ago. 2004 AP would have taken care all those concerns for her back then. It was Turkey's bad luck that that did not happen. Her options now are very limited, and the RoC must know that, and they will use their new position accordingly.

The whole purpose of my post was the result of what Germany and France said openly, which has changed everything for Turkey dramatically. Any changes that happens in Turkey, will make a change in Cyprus. Anyone who closes their eyes to this reality, is not only blind, but also living in DENIAL, and I do not mean the river in Egypt either.