Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

Waiting for the Barbarians.*(please read the note below)

What are we waiting for, assembled in the forum?
The barbarians are due to arrive today!

Why such an inaction in the Senate?
Why do our Senators sit and pass no laws?

Because the barbarians are due to arrive today.
What laws can the Senators pass any more?
Once the barbarians arrive, we will pass all the laws.

Why did our Emperor woke up so early,
and sat at the greatest gate of the city,
on the throne, dressed formally, wearing the crown?

Because the barbarians are due to arrive today.
And our emperor is waiting to receive their chief.
Besides, he has prepared to give him a scroll.
Therein he addresses him with honourable titles and names.

Why did our two consuls and the praetors come out,
today, in their red, embroidered togas?
Why do they wear amethyst-studded bracelets,
and rings with brilliant, glittering emeralds?
Why are they carrying costly sceptres today,
wonderfully carved with silver and gold?

Because the barbarians are due to arrive today,
and such things amaze the barbarians.

Why don't our worthy orators come as always
to make their speeches, to do their preaching?

Because the barbarians are due to arrive today;
and these people get bored with eloquence and orations.

Why all of a sudden this unrest and confusion?
(…How grave all the faces have become!)
Why all our streets and squares are vacating so quickly,
and everybody is returning back home, so deep in thought?

Because it’s already dark,
... and the barbarians are not here yet!
And some people, ....arriving from the border,
said that .... there are no barbarians any longer!

And now... what shall we become without any barbarians?
Those people were ....some kind of a solution!

Constantinos P. Cavafis (1904)

Note: The meaning of the word Barbarian should not be equated with the modern definition of the word, which means the uncivilized, but with the ancient Greek meaning, which was referring to any foreigner or stranger (someone from another nation or tribe, etc.) The etymology of the word derives from the notion that, since ancient Greeks didn't know the language of the other tribes or nations, it (othe's language) sounded in their ears as a constant “bar ,..bar,.. bar.” Therefore, anyone who didn’t speak their language was called a barbarian. Again, to avoid any misunderstandings, it doesn’t mean the uncivilized.

[Kifeas]

Some people may wander why I posted this famous Cavafis poem in this forum.

What relevance does such a poem have with a forum in which the Cyprus problem is being discussed?

Does anybody have an idea?

[insan]

Why such an inaction in the Senate?
Why do our Senators sit and pass no laws?

Because the barbarians are due to arrive today.
What laws can the Senators pass any more?
Once the barbarians arrive, we will pass all the laws.

Why should they wait barbarians, anyway?
Most of the senators are the close friends of the barbarians anyway.
Senator Pro-Hellene, Senator Pro-Turk, Senator Pro-EU, Senator Pro-Left, Senator Pro-Right, Senator Pro-National Fascist, Senator Self-interest, Senator Imbecile, Senator Pro-Cyprios, Senator Pro-Mix... etc..
They are already in the Senate.
Should they wait for the Barbarians to pass the laws in Senate?
If they fail to pass the laws because of inability of cooperation and compromise; yes the Barbarians would come and pass the laws.

[MicAtCyp]

Again, to avoid any misunderstandings, it doesn’t mean the uncivilized.

Hmm I am not sure of that. Most analyses I read of that poem do equate the barbarians with the uncivilised. According to these the poem was actually referring to a nation that was so corrupted and bored that had only 2 options left a)To be brought down to a primitive level by the barbarians so it regains a meaning of existence or b)Face the mental any physical death.
That's why a) was preferable to b).
I tend to beleive these are the stongest ones because otherwise the last 2 lines of the poem would be meaningless

Anyway other "weaker" analyses I read say that the Barbarians actually mean a seemingly bad change as the only way to jump to a new glory.Others even weaker say the Barbarians are the nations lost brothers.

So I guess the TCs and the GCs are barbarians to each other, who together would lead the nation to a new glory.

[Kifeas]

In this poem, Cavafis describes a State whose prime reason for doing what they were doing was to impress the barbarians; a tribe, hypothetically less developed and with different habits, ideas and purpose of living. On one hand the barbarians were considered as an inferior and stubborn people or at least, culturally different than them. On the other hand their (barbarian’s) very existence and presence was needed, in order to have a sample to which they could measure and project their hypothetical rightfullness and correctness, to themselves. Although the barbarians were a nuisance, simultaneously, they were an essentiality for the State, in order to justify its way of living but more importantly to show off. Once the barbarians ceased to exist, the life of the people in that State lost it’s meaning completely, because now they will have no one to whom they will project their achievements or ...argue against.

Why this issue came up in this forum?
Here we are people from the two communities (GCs and TCs.) Each side argues it’s own case and tries to convince the other side. Sometimes we agree but often we argue, quarrel and even curse each other. We seem (our ideas) to be of a nuisance to each other. However, just imagine for a minute that, all of suddenly, one of the two sides withdraws completely from the forum. Wouldn’t the purpose of the forum loose it’s meaning? Whom the remaining side will argue with, in order to prove it's rightfulness on all the issues?

Wouldn’t the remaining side say to themselves?

“And now... what shall we become without any barbarians?
Those people were ...some kind of a solution!”

A solution to our need to discuss, argue, quarrel and even curse the other.

So friends, read the poem again. Unfortunately it reads better in it’s original Greek, but it is a nice and humorous one and also didactic. Thanks Insan and MicAtCyp for trying. Actually you two are the ones who inspired me to post it.

[insan]

Kifeas, Kavafis is one of my favourite poet. This is the third time one of his poems named "Barbarians" posted on this board. We have never commented on it, though.


Here's the links to other two related topics:

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... vafy#11612

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... avafy#7597

[insan]

They should have provided
I have almost been reduced to a homeless pauper.
This fatal city, Istanbul,
has consumed all my money;
this fatal city with its expensive life.

But I am young and in excellent health.
My command of Turkish and Greek is superb
(I know all there is about Shinasi, Aristotle, Farabi, Plato;
orators, poets, you name it.)
I have an idea of military affairs,
and have friends among the mercenary chiefs.
I am on the inside of administration as well.
Last year I spent six months in Alexandria;
I have some knowledge (and this is useful) of affairs there:
intentions of the Malefactor, and villainies, et cetera.

Therefore I believe that I am fully
qualified to serve this country,
my beloved homeland Cyprus.

In whatever capacity they place me I shall strive
to be useful to the country. This is my intent.
Then again, if they thwart me with their methods --
we know those able people: need we talk about it now?
if they thwart me, I am not to blame.

First, I shall apply to North,
and if this moron does not appreciate me,
I shall go to his rival South.
And if this idiot does not hire me,
I shall go straight to Turkey.

One of the three will want me however.

And my conscience is not troubled
about not worrying about my choice.
All four harm Cyprus equally.

But, a ruined man, why is it my fault.
Wretched man, I am trying to make ends meet.
The almighty gods should have provided
and created a fourth, good man.
Gladly would I have joined him.

Constantine P. Cavafy (1930)



Perhaps the fourth man is the man himself. Now I have turned to myself. I don't expect anything from anyone...

[Kifeas]

Perhaps the fourth man is the man himself. Now I have turned to myself. I don't expect anything from anyone...

Insan, this is one of the realities of life, although it may sound too pessimistic. I am more for J.F. Kennedy’s phrase "Don't ask what you country can give to you, but what you can offer to it."

I find Ithaca, the very best of Cavafy’s poems. I believe it is more suitable for every person who seeks some true meaning in life. i.e. The most important thing is not whether at the end, one will achieve his/her goals, but what he/she will learn during the trip towards reaching them.
Ithaca
When you set out on your journey to Ithaca,
pray that the road is long,
full of adventure, full of knowledge.
The Lestrygonians and the Cyclops,
the angry Poseidon -- do not fear them:
You will never find such as these on your path,
if your thoughts remain lofty, if a fine
emotion touches your spirit and your body.
The Lestrygonians and the Cyclops,
the fierce Poseidon you will never encounter,
if you do not carry them within your soul,
if your soul does not set them up before you.

Pray that the road is long.
That the summer mornings are many, when,
with such pleasure, with such joy
you will enter ports seen for the first time;
stop at Phoenician markets,
and purchase fine merchandise,
mother-of-pearl and coral, amber and ebony,
and sensual perfumes of all kinds,
as many sensual perfumes as you can;
visit many Egyptian cities,
to learn and learn from scholars.

Always keep Ithaca in your mind.
To arrive there is your ultimate goal.
But do not hurry the voyage at all.
It is better to let it last for many years;
and to anchor at the island when you are old,
rich with all you have gained on the way,
not expecting that Ithaca will offer you riches.

Ithaca has given you the beautiful voyage.
Without her you would have never set out on the road.
She has nothing more to give you.

And if you find her poor, Ithaca has not deceived you.
Wise as you have become, with so much experience,
you must already have understood what Ithacas mean.
____________________________________________

What made you so much interested in Cavafy's poetry? I mean, we Greek language educated people come across him as part of our school curriculum. In your case, how did you come across him? For example, I am sure there are famous Turkish poets too but unfortunately we do not get to know much about their work. In your case? You seem to know more about Cavafys than the average Greek!

[insan]

In Istanbul some Greek poets; such as Sepheris(Sepheriades), Kavafis(Cavafy), Ritsos and Elitis are very famous among the intellectuals and mariginals. As a natural consequence of my personal characteristics, I have always been among those intellectuals and mariginals. The intellectual enviroment of Istanbul introduced me these Greek poets and many others. These Greek poets symbolize universal values of humanity for me not Greek poetry.


http://giorgos-sepheris.tripod.com/

A Turkish made website about Sephariades.

http://www.kaapeli.fi/~nihil/babel/abc.htm

You can find some of the poems of world famous Turkish poets on above website.

Orhan Veli Kanik, Nazim Hikmet, Edip Cansever, Ahmed Arif, Ozdemir Asaf, Atilla Ilhan and Cahit Kulebi are my recommendations.

[insan]

(From Logbook III)
HELEN


TEUCER: . . . in sea-girt Cyprus, where it was decreed by Apollo that I should live, giving the city
the name of Salamis in memory of my island home.

HELEN: I never went to Troy; it was a phantom.

SERVANT: What? You mean it was only for a cloud that we struggled so much?

EURIPIDES, HELEN


“The nightingales won’t let you sleep in Platres.”

Shy nightingale, in the breathing of the leaves,
you who bestow the forest’s musical coolness
on the sundered bodies, on the souls
of those who know they will not return.
Blind voice, you who grope in the darkness of memory
for footsteps and gestures-I wouldn’t dare say kisses-
and the bitter raging of the slavewoman grown wild.

“The nightingales won’t let you sleep in Platres.”

Platres: where is Platres? And this island: who knows it?
I’ve lived my life hearing names I’ve never heard before:
new countries, new idiocies of men
or of the gods;
my fate, which wavers
between the last sword of some Ajax
and another Salamis,
brought me here, to this shore.
The moon
rose from the sea like Aphrodite,
covered the Archer’s stars, now moves to find
the Heart of Scorpio, and changes everything.
Truth, where’s the truth?
I too was an archer in the war;
my fate: that of a man who missed his target.

Lyric nightingale,
on a night like this, by the shore of Proteus,
the Spartan slave girls heard you and began their lament,
and among them- who would have believed it? -Helen!
She whom we hunted so many years by the banks of the Scamander.
She was there, at the desert’s lip; I touched her; she spoke to me:
“It isn’t true, it isn’t true,” she cried.
“I didn’t board the blue-bowed ship.
I never went to valiant Troy.”

Breasts girded high, the sun in her hair, and that stature
shadows and smiles everywhere,
on shoulders, thighs, and knees;
the skin alive, and her eyes
with the large eyelids,
she was there, on the banks of a Delta.
And at Troy?
At Troy, nothing: just a phantom image.
The gods wanted it so.
And Paris, Paris lay with a shadow as though it were a solid being;
and for ten whole years we slaughtered ourselves for Helen.

Great suffering had fallen on Greece.
So many bodies thrown
into the jaws of the sea, the jaws of the earth
so many souls
fed to the millstones like grain.
And the rivers swelling, blood in their silt,
all for a linen undulation, a filmy cloud,
a butterfly’s flicker, a whisp of swan’s down,
an empty tunic—all for a Helen.
And my brother?
Nightingale nightingale nightingale,
what is a god? What is not a god? And what is there in-between them?

“The nightingales won’t let you sleep in Platres.”

Tearful bird,
on sea-kissed Cyprus
consecrated to remind me of my country,
I moored alone with this fable,
if it’s true that it is a fable,
if it’s true that mortals
will not again take up
the old deceit of the gods;
if it’s true
that in future years some other Teucer,
or some Ajax or Priam or Hecuba,
or someone unknown and nameless who nevertheless saw
a Scamander overflow with corpses,
isn’t fated to hear
messengers coming to tell him
that so much suffering, so much life,
went into the abyss
all for an empty tunic, all for a Helen.

http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~marinos/sef ... poems.html


His house in Symirna was restored to serve the tourists under the name Hotel Yorgo Seferis Residnce.

http://www.yorgoseferis.com/yorgoseferis/sayfa1.htm