Cyprus-Forum.com

[denizaksulu]

Question 1 is about the Ottoman conquer of Cyprus and the following administrative order...Here is the opening paragraph in full translation:

"The Ottoman Empire conquered Cyprus in 1571,at a cost of 80,000 martyrs,in order to stop the pirates based on Cyprus from attacking ships sailing through the Mediterranean,and to help the Orthodox Greeks who were oppressed by the Catholic Venetians."
The ottoman rule lasted for 307 years in practice and 352 years legally...

During this time Cyprus experienced a liberty not seen in her long history.

The Turks liberated the Orthodox church and brought the freedom of religion to Greek Cypriots...By accepting the Archbishop as the political representative of his people,Ottoman rule gave Greek Cypriots the right to take their grievances directly to the Palace...

The Greek Cypriots responded by supporting the Greek uprising of 1821 by means of money,ammunition and soldiers,and by trying to massacre the entire Turkish Cypriot population in the same year...

During the Ottoman rule the economic situation of the Greek Cypriots improved immeasurably...This was the result of the great tolerance shown to them by the Ottomans...

The island's administrative system was redrawn,and brought under 17 districts run by "KADIs"...Greek Cypriots as well as Armenian and Maronite Cypriots were given representation rights on the Administrative Council... Hence for the first time in their history,Greek Cypriots had a say in the running of their island...Also by means of tax collection by the Church,and the liberties in the education system,Greek Cypriots enjoyed an early form of self-rule...

There you are,you ungrateful sods....Now you know how good you had it under the Ottomans....What say you...????????

BK, The lines highlighted in red are well documented and have references in western publications.

The other paragraphs (not highlighted) also have references in Western sources.

Are any references given in this book? I for one am glad I dont refer to Turkish Publications as I prefer 'neutral' or original sources.

Translating bits and pieces are prone to errors and are in danger of loosing original meanings ( like the Bible translations). This is just a quick observation BK.

Please clarify the purpose of the 'bits and pieces' so we can attempt to comment 'objectively'.

Selamlar

Please clarify 'who are the 'ungrateful sods' you refer to''.

[DT.]

Question 1 is about the Ottoman conquer of Cyprus and the following administrative order...Here is the opening paragraph in full translation:

"The Ottoman Empire conquered Cyprus in 1571,at a cost of 80,000 martyrs,in order to stop the pirates based on Cyprus from attacking ships sailing through the Mediterranean,and to help the Orthodox Greeks who were oppressed by the Catholic Venetians."
The ottoman rule lasted for 307 years in practice and 352 years legally...

During this time Cyprus experienced a liberty not seen in her long history.

The Turks liberated the Orthodox church and brought the freedom of religion to Greek Cypriots...By accepting the Archbishop as the political representative of his people,Ottoman rule gave Greek Cypriots the right to take their grievances directly to the Palace...

The Greek Cypriots responded by supporting the Greek uprising of 1821 by means of money,ammunition and soldiers,and by trying to massacre the entire Turkish Cypriot population in the same year...

During the Ottoman rule the economic situation of the Greek Cypriots improved immeasurably...This was the result of the great tolerance shown to them by the Ottomans...

The island's administrative system was redrawn,and brought under 17 districts run by "KADIs"...Greek Cypriots as well as Armenian and Maronite Cypriots were given representation rights on the Administrative Council... Hence for the first time in their history,Greek Cypriots had a say in the running of their island...Also by means of tax collection by the Church,and the liberties in the education system,Greek Cypriots enjoyed an early form of self-rule...

There you are,you ungrateful sods....Now you know how good you had it under the Ottomans....What say you...????????

BK, The lines highlighted in red are well documented and have references in western publications.

The other paragraphs (not highlighted) also have references in Western sources.

Are any references given in this book? I for one am glad I dont refer to Turkish Publications as I prefer 'neutral' or original sources.

Translating bits and pieces are prone to errors and are in danger of loosing original meanings ( like the Bible translations). This is just a quick observation BK.

Please clarify the purpose of the 'bits and pieces' so we can attempt to comment 'objectively'.

Selamlar

Please clarify 'who are the 'ungrateful sods' you refer to''.

that would be us Deniz...We who still have the audacity to not kiss the arse of every single Turkish soldier for all the good they have done for us over the centuries.

[shahmaran]

Sure, benefit the arrival of the Ottomans, which is obviously far from "arse kissing" and then blame them for coming, typical Cypriot mentality i would say, it is still pretty evident today

Did you not do the same to the British too?

[Tim Drayton]

Re: Megali Idea

What I find curious about this doctrine is that, depending on how you look at it, it can be seen as either a progressive or reactionary ideology. After the first rump Greek state had been created, there can surely be nothing unacceptable about the desire to bring neighbouring regions such as Thessaly, whose population was predominantly Hellenic, into the new state. This is simply recognition of the right to self-determination. On the other hand, the desire to bring all the territory once conquered by Alexander the Great under the rule of the new Greek state would have been totally unrealistic and would have entailed conquering territories such as Iran which did not boast a single Greek resident. This would amount to irredentism and imperialism.

An interesting question to ask would be:
What percentage of the population of a particular region has to be non-Hellenic for the Megali idea to cease being a liberation ideology and instead one which promotes the subjugation of non-Greeks?

Re: Ottoman Conquest

To describe the Ottoman Conquest of Cyprus as a "liberation" is going a bit far, and I do not support the subjugation of Cyprus by any foreign power, but I find it hard to understand why many people cannot accept that the Greek Cypriots had a better deal under the Ottomans than they did under the Venetians. The latter imposed a feudal system which reduced the indigenous population of Cyprus to the status of serfs. Religious tolerance was unknown in Europe at the time. Oppression of Christians by Christians? It happened for centuries in Western Europe following the reformation until the peace treaty of Westphalia. For one example, refer to the St Bartholomew's Day Massacre:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Bartho ... y_Massacre

Sure, the indigenous Christian population of Cyprus was also oppressed under the Ottomans, but it enjoyed more freedom than it did under the Venetians, and the Orthodox Church was recognised.

Actually, I think both of the above points are fairly academic. Neither the union of Cyprus with Greece nor the re-imposition of Ottoman rule are realistic projects in the present day, so people should really direct their gaze much more towards the future rather than the past when debating a settlement.

[iceman]

I just came across this book by a Mr Sabahattin Ismail,who,according to the back cover of his book, is a Paphian Journalist who has occupied some important positions in the trnc administration. In the year 2000, he was working as the permanent secretary to the President,who I take to be Mr RR Denktash...So we can safely assume this is the Official trnc approved short history of the Cyprus problem...

I thought it might be interesting to take a close look at it.
This will give our Cypriot brothers and sisters a good idea of the kind of brainwashing which goes on in the North of the border...

Please feel free to jump in as usual and agree or disagree with Mr Ismail's version of the events...The book is in Turkish,so I intend to summarise the general points for you in English,and translate some of the more important aspects in full...The Questions in question goes back to 1571,and covers most of the important milestones in the Cyprus conflict,strictly from the Turkish and TC perspective...I hope you will enjoy
this exercise,and participate in great numbers in bringing out the truth of the matters...

Bir
When introducing Sabahattin Ismail AKA "SABO" (to ordinary TC's) you should have also stated that he is the Chief Editor for TC daily paper Volkan...He also is an ex commie educated in Moscow at the same time as Dogan Harman..
He was press advisor for Denktas during his presidency.
He does not reflect "Official trnc approved short history of the Cyprus problem"
The books he wrote were sponsored by Denktas when he was in power...
Sabahattin Ismail was one of the two leading figures (Taner Etkin was the other) of the non existent UHH (Ulusal Halk Harekati) the organisation formed by Denktas to rival the TC peoples movement before 2003...

That should give you an idea of this gentleman before you start discussing his views on Cyprus history..

[Kikapu]

I just came across this book by a Mr Sabahattin Ismail,who,according to the back cover of his book, is a Paphian Journalist who has occupied some important positions in the trnc administration. In the year 2000, he was working as the permanent secretary to the President,who I take to be Mr RR Denktash...So we can safely assume this is the Official trnc approved short history of the Cyprus problem...

I thought it might be interesting to take a close look at it.
This will give our Cypriot brothers and sisters a good idea of the kind of brainwashing which goes on in the North of the border...

Please feel free to jump in as usual and agree or disagree with Mr Ismail's version of the events...The book is in Turkish,so I intend to summarise the general points for you in English,and translate some of the more important aspects in full...The Questions in question goes back to 1571,and covers most of the important milestones in the Cyprus conflict,strictly from the Turkish and TC perspective...I hope you will enjoy
this exercise,and participate in great numbers in bringing out the truth of the matters...

Bir
When introducing Sabahattin Ismail AKA "SABO" (to ordinary TC's) you should have also stated that he is the Chief Editor for TC daily paper Volkan...He also is an ex commie educated in Moscow at the same time as Dogan Harman..
He was press advisor for Denktas during his presidency.
He does not reflect "Official trnc approved short history of the Cyprus problem"
The books he wrote were sponsored by Denktas when he was in power...
Sabahattin Ismail was one of the two leading figures (Taner Etkin was the other) of the non existent UHH (Ulusal Halk Harekati) the organisation formed by Denktas to rival the TC peoples movement before 2003...

That should give you an idea of this gentleman before you start discussing his views on Cyprus history..

Iceman,

I think Bir is just taking the piss of this person's book, in a round about way.

At least that's the impression I got from Bir's opening post.

[karma]

Iceman,

I think Bir is just taking the piss of this person's book, in a round about way.

At least that's the impression I got from Bir's opening post.

well, as I know , BirK is trying to find out the similarities and the differences between Rigas Feraios and Rauf Denktash , so let me help him

Picture 1




Picture 2

[denizaksulu]

Iceman,

I think Bir is just taking the piss of this person's book, in a round about way.

At least that's the impression I got from Bir's opening post.

well, as I know , BirK is trying to find out the similarities and the differences between Rigas Feraios and Rauf Denktash , so let me help him

Picture 1




Picture 2

The semblance is uncanny. Who is the other guy with the polka dot tie?

[BC Numismatics]

Deniz,that's Rauf Denktash,who looks kind of like the big fat ugly pointed-hatted Nazi gorilla called the Pope of Rome.

Aidan.

[denizaksulu]

Deniz,that's Rauf Denktash,who looks kind of like the big fat ugly pointed-hatted Nazi gorilla called the Pope of Rome.

Aidan.

Thanks but No thanks BCN. I never even thought of insulting your Greek National Hero. I looked him up on the net and read about him and thereby expanding my knowlege re: the collapse of the Ottoman Empire..

Have a nice evening