Cyprus-Forum.com

[BC Numismatics]

Tim,you're forgetting that countries like India & Uganda benefited from British rule.Since the British pulled out,quite a few countries have gone down the crapper.Zimbabwe is a classic example.

Aidan.

[shahmaran]

What kind of a sick moron are you, you think these countries went "down the crapper" because the British pulled out, as opposed to the fact that the British parasites were sucking their blood for centuries?

Jesus Christ, get a grip will ya!

But then who am i fooling, this dribbling idiot has clearly been lobotomised by the Queen in order to pamper her coocoo without questions until the day he rots in hell.

You serve the Queen well my man, she needs suckers like you, keep it up!

[BirKibrisli]

Question 2 is about the origins of the TCs. 3 is about the origins of the GCs...Nothing very notable in either of those topics....

Question 4 is: What is Megali idea??????

The literal definition of megali idea is "the big ideal"...
This idea is in existence since the 1453 capture of Istanbul by Fatih Sultan Mehmet...According to this big idea Constantinople will be recaptured,and a Great Hellenic Empire will be re-established on the lands from Greece,Crete,Rodes,Cyprus,Anatolia,all the way to Alexandria in Egypt.

Megali idea is the brainchild of one Rigas Ferreros. He is responsible for preparing the first Megali Idea map,and publishing it in Vienna in 1796.

The job of fostering theMegali Idea and passing it on to the following generations fell onto the Orthodox Church,and their Patriarchy in Istanbul...
It is undeniable that their success depended very much on the tolerance shown to the Church by the Ottomans.
The Megali Idea got its momentum after Greece got her independence in 1821. Crete,Rhodes and the Aegean Islands became Greek territory,Greece invaded Anatolia,but was repelled by the Turkish people in Anatolia and by the Turkish Cypriots in Cyprus...

It is important to stress that Megali Idea was always supported by the Western nations,especially by Britain and Russia....

So that is Megali Idea according to Mr Ismail...Everyone happy with that???

[BirKibrisli]

Birkibrisli,the Ottoman Turks were a terrible colonial power.The British were the best colonial power.I'm tired of telling you why.

Aidan.

I do not accept that there is such a thing as a "good colonial power". I support the principle of self-determination for all peoples.

Well said,Tim...I agree,as long as self-determination for some does not equal oppression of others,especially the minorities,which is too often the case...The thing we have to be aware of in any "democracy" is the tyranny of "the majority"...What majority wants is not always right or good for everyone in a society...

[BirKibrisli]

Question 1 is about the Ottoman conquer of Cyprus and the following administrative order...Here is the opening paragraph in full translation:

"The Ottoman Empire conquered Cyprus in 1571,at a cost of 80,000 martyrs,in order to stop the pirates based on Cyprus from attacking ships sailing through the Mediterranean,and to help the Orthodox Greeks who were oppressed by the Catholic Venetians."

The ottoman rule lasted for 307 years in practice and 352 years legally...

During this time Cyprus experienced a liberty not seen in her long history.

The Turks liberated the Orthodox church and brought the freedom of religion to Greek Cypriots...By accepting the Archbishop as the political representative of his people,Ottoman rule gave Greek Cypriots the right to take their grievances directly to the Palace...

The Greek Cypriots responded by supporting the Greek uprising of 1821 by means of money,ammunition and soldiers,and by trying to massacre the entire Turkish Cypriot population in the same year...

During the Ottoman rule the economic situation of the Greek Cypriots improved immeasurably...This was the result of the great tolerance shown to them by the Ottomans...

The island's administrative system was redrawn,and brought under 17 districts run by "KADIs"...Greek Cypriots as well as Armenian and Maronite Cypriots were given representation rights on the Administrative Council... Hence for the first time in their history,Greek Cypriots had a say in the running of their island...Also by means of tax collection by the Church,and the liberties in the education system,Greek Cypriots enjoyed an early form of self-rule...

There you are,you ungrateful sods....Now you know how good you had it under the Ottomans....What say you...????????

Well Bir , Im certain that such "historical facts" are included in the other "historical facts " challenge them at article 301 PERIL !!

Hello,dear miltiades. Great to see you back. Your sanity was greatly missed. I sometimes think the term "historical facts" is an oxymoron too.

[BirKibrisli]

Lets hear it one more time for those of us who don't know why BC, why are the British so great?


Oh and Birkibrisli, how are you planning to crush these historical claims, by the means of which source?

I have no plans to crush anything,Shah...It is up to others to do that ,if they so chose...I intend to be just the messenger!

Well that's fine Bir, but i would seriously like to see people challenge them with credible sources, so we can shed some light on the matter for real, if that is possible at all.

And when i say credible sources, i don't mean "Piratis style" sources nor some other equally dubious propaganda material.

...and no grandpa tales either!

So come on peeps...

That is precisely my aim and my ambition too,Shah...

[miltiades]

Here is link to a US site which I believe on balance its independent .

http://countrystudies.us/cyprus/

[miltiades]

Omitted to mention that the site is from the US Library of Congress , a well respected source of historical events.

[Tim Drayton]

Birkibrisli,the Ottoman Turks were a terrible colonial power.The British were the best colonial power.I'm tired of telling you why.

Aidan.

I do not accept that there is such a thing as a "good colonial power". I support the principle of self-determination for all peoples.

Well said,Tim...I agree,as long as self-determination for some does not equal oppression of others,especially the minorities,which is too often the case...The thing we have to be aware of in any "democracy" is the tyranny of "the majority"...What majority wants is not always right or good for everyone in a society...

I know. The devil is in the detail. Where do you draw the line between a "people" who have the right to self-determination, and a "minority" who do not? Unfortunately many parts of the world are ethnically heteregenous and it is not always easy to draw the boundaries of a nation state.

[shahmaran]

Question 1 is about the Ottoman conquer of Cyprus and the following administrative order...Here is the opening paragraph in full translation:

"The Ottoman Empire conquered Cyprus in 1571,at a cost of 80,000 martyrs,in order to stop the pirates based on Cyprus from attacking ships sailing through the Mediterranean,and to help the Orthodox Greeks who were oppressed by the Catholic Venetians."

The ottoman rule lasted for 307 years in practice and 352 years legally...

During this time Cyprus experienced a liberty not seen in her long history.

The Turks liberated the Orthodox church and brought the freedom of religion to Greek Cypriots...By accepting the Archbishop as the political representative of his people,Ottoman rule gave Greek Cypriots the right to take their grievances directly to the Palace...

The Greek Cypriots responded by supporting the Greek uprising of 1821 by means of money,ammunition and soldiers,and by trying to massacre the entire Turkish Cypriot population in the same year...

During the Ottoman rule the economic situation of the Greek Cypriots improved immeasurably...This was the result of the great tolerance shown to them by the Ottomans...

The island's administrative system was redrawn,and brought under 17 districts run by "KADIs"...Greek Cypriots as well as Armenian and Maronite Cypriots were given representation rights on the Administrative Council... Hence for the first time in their history,Greek Cypriots had a say in the running of their island...Also by means of tax collection by the Church,and the liberties in the education system,Greek Cypriots enjoyed an early form of self-rule...

There you are,you ungrateful sods....Now you know how good you had it under the Ottomans....What say you...????????

Well here is a small section from the source of Miltiades that might interest certain points in Birkibrisli's post.

The former foreign elite was destroyed--its members killed, carried away as captives, or exiled. The Orthodox Christians, i.e., the Greek Cypriots who survived, had new foreign overlords. Some early decisions of these new rulers were welcome innovations. The feudal system was abolished, and the freed serfs were enabled to acquire land and work their own farms. Although the small landholdings of the peasants were heavily taxed, the ending of serfdom changed the lives of the island's ordinary people. Another action of far-reaching importance was the granting of land to Turkish soldiers and peasants who became the nucleus of the island's Turkish community.

Although their homeland had been dominated by foreigners for many centuries, it was only after the imposition of Ottoman rule that Orthodox Christians began to develop a really strong sense of cohesiveness. This change was prompted by the Ottoman practice of ruling the empire through millets, or religious communities. Rather than suppressing the empire's many religious communities, the Turks allowed them a degree of automony as long as they complied with the demands of the sultan. The vast size and the ethnic variety of the empire made such a policy imperative. The system of governing through millets reestablished the authority of the Church of Cyprus and made its head the Greek Cypriot leader, or ethnarch. It became the responsibility of the ethnarch to administer the territories where his flock lived and to collect taxes. The religious convictions and functions of the ethnarch were of no concern to the empire as long as its needs were met.

In 1575 the Turks granted permission for the return of the archbishop and the three bishops of the Church of Cyprus to their respective sees. They also abolished the feudal system for they saw it as an extraneous power structure, unnecessary and dangerous. The autocephalous Church of Cyprus could function in its place for the political and fiscal administration of the island's Christian inhabitants. Its structured hierarchy put even remote villages within easy reach of the central authority. Both parties benefited. Greek Cypriots gained a measure of autonomy, and the empire received revenues without the bother of administration.

Ottoman rule of Cyprus was at times indifferent, at times oppressive, depending on the temperaments of the sultans and local officials. The island fell into economic decline both because of the empire's commercial ineptitude and because the Atlantic Ocean had displaced the Mediterranean Sea as the most important avenue of commerce. Natural disasters such as earthquakes, infestations of locusts, and famines also caused economic hardship and contributed to the general condition of decay and decline.