Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

Since 'Europe' and 'European' is an idea, the response to the question 'are we really Europeans ?' depends entirely on what we take that idea to be.

Following David Hume, one principal way of identifying something is through a contrast, through establishing what it is not. Thus 'Europeans are not Americans', 'Europe is not Australasia', 'Europe is not ... ?' It's quite hard to think in these contrasting terms...what is Europe not ?

This lead me to think that Europe is whatever a prevailing political force/movement wants it to be. That's why I think the opening question of this thread is a good strong, but very difficult question to answer. I'm with Sega when s/he says 'I suppose Europe has very little to do with the European Union', just that the EU has come to be the prevailing force which has been imprinting an idea of Europe.

Europe is, the UK and Germany and France and possibly the Nordic countries.....The rest aspire to be......

Examples...

Eurovison...All songs to sound like the pop songs from these countries all other countries afraid to show they have ethnic roots

Fashion...Ditto

Looks...Ditto

etc etc etc.......

[shahmaran]

That is so true Zan. It is disgraceful.

[zan]

That is so true Zan. It is disgraceful.

I hope Turkey put a guy and his Saz on this year and stuff the points.....No body wants to win this so called competition anyway so lets have some proper music.

Cengiz Özkan - Güzelliğin On Par' Etmez (Dedicated to Phoenix)

[Leffette]

MAY I SAY MY OPINION TOO!!!!

I think in many ways we will be Europeans,

but in MORE WAYS we will be the MIDDLE EAST...the strict father towards his toward and the strict parents towards their children.
The strict parents in law to their children.
KOUMPARI AND KOUMERES will never stop being koumpari and koumeres

It will take another 100 years until we say we are fully EUROPEANS

but lets enjoy the possitives and await for the better

[Leffette]

Eleni we all face these challenges of being called something else...this is how we are seen here in Canada too....from another country...the low paid ones!

Bill,
I wouldn't worry If I were you, English Cypriots that come back to live may get their ID card easier but it still say's they are British.
My mother-in- law who was born here kept her British passport in 1960 was living in the Uk, came back to live permenently in the early 80's is still classed as a foreigner her ID states she is British.
I came a year ago, & found out that people that come to live in one village from another even if they have lived in cyprus all their lives are classed as foreigners.
My husband was told by his boss when he got his job " I've given you a chance after all you are an englesokypraios" made me laugh he lived in Canada in the passed!!!!!
I think you should give them a chance this is all new to them they are being swamped by foreigners, it is happening very quickly

Eleni
(engelesa/englesa married to a englesokypraios)but deep down just another human being.

[Leffette]

Good opinion we are 80% CYPRIOTS MIDDLE EASTERN mentality, and the 20% hops hops we are Europeans...so???? nice to be BOTH

I personally have always considered Cyprus to be in the Middle East due to it's geographical position, I have been pilloried for making such a claim before and will probably attract the same rebukes for my opinion now.

Quite apart from the geographical considerations (and I would like to meet the Cartographer that first drew the wiggly line around us !) I base my assertion on the 'Nature and Character' of the people who, as Cypriots, possessed a charm and sense of humanity which was totally at odds with our (now) Western counterparts.

The hospitality and generosity of the Cypriot people was a credit to humanity in days gone by, it is a sad indictment of those who have engineered our inclusion into the 'Club', that those qualities are disappearing at a rate of knots.

There are still areas in the Middle East where such genuine regard for the well-being of one's fellow man are apparent, I mourn the fact that Cyprus has taken (what I would consider to be) a downward spiral in it's finer cultural attributes.

In terms of 'Military and Political Might', I agree that Cyprus is now (due to it's allegiances with other 'Club Members') probably safer in a military sense, however, as the situation on the island clearly illustrates, politically it is still vulnerable to the chicanery of those who occupy the high ground in the said politics.

Therefore, we may be IN but you can count me OUT as far as feeling European is concerned.

In my rebellious opinion.

[BC Numismatics]

Cypriots are more European than Middle Eastern in culture.Cyprus is regarded as being located in both Europe & the Middle East.

Aidan.

[Cheshire Cat]

At the end of the day does it REALLY matter ?

[BOF]

Since 'Europe' and 'European' is an idea, the response to the question 'are we really Europeans ?' depends entirely on what we take that idea to be.

Following David Hume, one principal way of identifying something is through a contrast, through establishing what it is not. Thus 'Europeans are not Americans', 'Europe is not Australasia', 'Europe is not ... ?' It's quite hard to think in these contrasting terms...what is Europe not ?

This lead me to think that Europe is whatever a prevailing political force/movement wants it to be. That's why I think the opening question of this thread is a good strong, but very difficult question to answer. I'm with Sega when s/he says 'I suppose Europe has very little to do with the European Union', just that the EU has come to be the prevailing force which has been imprinting an idea of Europe.

Europe is, the UK and Germany and France and possibly the Nordic countries.....The rest aspire to be......

Examples...

Eurovison...All songs to sound like the pop songs from these countries all other countries afraid to show they have ethnic roots

Fashion...Ditto

Looks...Ditto

etc etc etc.......

Ha Ha now you have opened a bag of worms! how does Israel get to be in the "eurovision" song contest? (originally called " a song for europe")
and all the tit for tat voting that goes on - cyprus votes for greece, greece votes for cyprus - latvia votes for estonia etc. last year all the eastern states voted for each other so guess who won and came second and third?
I think scrap it and show "those magnificent men in their flying machines" how cultural differences approach the same task in different ways, and stereotypes different nations...and reminds people to laugh at their own culture as well as others....

[Eliko]

At the end of the day does it REALLY matter ?

Actually, in terms of military might it is quite an important union, since if all members are commited to the same objectives (whatever they may be) they represent a formidable opponent to any who may attempt to de-stabilize the area protected by such a union.

In political terms, whereas there might appear to be union, the very nature of politics usually ensures that there will always be dissent somewhere, even among it's own members.

In terms of how it affects the general population, I believe it can be destructive in that we (different nationalities with different outlooks) are required to adopt similar practices, some of which will result in the loss of our personal identities and cultural traditions.

Overall, the position as far as the people are concerned is ever the same, like it or not they are in (if the politicians decide so) and there is little point in relying on elections or referendums, they have got that sorted too.

As to whether or not we FEEL European, that is a matter of personal opinion which cannot be influenced (YET), in my own case, as I have already stated, I prefer to regard myself and my in-bred Cypriot feelings intact, therefore count me OUT.