Cyprus-Forum.com

[Cheshire Cat]

I remember when I arrived in Cypus how enchanted I was with the Cypriot people, but people change. Maybe it is evolution, maybe we have all changed. As I remember it was Cyprus who wanted in and things started to change long before she joined Europe. I saw the rot when the Russians came over, no doubt I will be slated for that.

The question was do you consider yourself to be European, simple question, simple answer. Did Cyprus have a referendum on whether or not she should join , I do not know, I lived there but despite trying I could not read Greek/Cypriot. You tell me? Did you have a vote, ? what did you vote.

The one thing I clearly remember though was the Cypriot folk I spoke to at the time were delighted at the prospect of going into Europe, they were looking forward to all the perks and grants they were going to receive.

You do not like the British, you do not like the French, or the Americans ( Nothing to do with europe, I know) is there anyone nation you do like, which ?

[BOF]

i think you may find that the answer is greece?
I agree Cyprus is more middle east than european in location and mindset.. but it is early days for them. eventually things will have to change for them.

[Sega]

I personally have always considered Cyprus to be in the Middle East due to it's geographical position, I have been pilloried for making such a claim before and will probably attract the same rebukes for my opinion now.

Quite apart from the geographical considerations (and I would like to meet the Cartographer that first drew the wiggly line around us !) I base my assertion on the 'Nature and Character' of the people who, as Cypriots, possessed a charm and sense of humanity which was totally at odds with our (now) Western counterparts.

The hospitality and generosity of the Cypriot people was a credit to humanity in days gone by, it is a sad indictment of those who have engineered our inclusion into the 'Club', that those qualities are disappearing at a rate of knots.

There are still areas in the Middle East where such genuine regard for the well-being of one's fellow man are apparent, I mourn the fact that Cyprus has taken (what I would consider to be) a downward spiral in it's finer cultural attributes.

In terms of 'Military and Political Might', I agree that Cyprus is now (due to it's allegiances with other 'Club Members') probably safer in a military sense, however, as the situation on the island clearly illustrates, politically it is still vulnerable to the chicanery of those who occupy the high ground in the said politics.

Therefore, we may be IN but you can count me OUT as far as feeling European is concerned.

In my rebellious opinion.

Your right on your findings. I suppose Europe has very little to do with the European Union, sounds ludicrous but it's true. it is possible for a country outside the European boundaries to be part of the European Union. Greenland was once given the choice to join the European Union some time ago but it declined.

You can think of Europe split in parts, the Mediterranean block (incl. Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal), Northern block (incl. Sweden, Finland, Netherlands), the North-Western block (incl. UK, Ireland, Germany, France, Brussels). There are many other blocks including the old Russian block etc. I am not disputing that each country within a block is different, but the countries within a block contain similar sense of mentality. Italy is different to Brussels, but has more similarities in mentality with Spain.

It's also true that Cyprus has many similarities with Greece and coastal parts of Turkey. Europe is not one way of life, but instead the search for improvement. It accommodates all cultures and backgrounds. It's goal is not to wipe out old traditions, this happens without it's involvement.

When my farther was a child, Cyprus was completely different to what it is today, change is inevitable, we cannot stop it. All we can do is prepare and embrace it, normally the first ones who do have more to gain. 40 years ago women found it difficult to roam round towns independently without being branded as bad (putting it a nice way). Things are slightly different in today's world.

Regarding Cyprus's security, I feel if Turkey wanted to attack it could, and maybe such an outcome would become more evident if a decline to their European accession is ever guaranteed.

[phoenix]

Well if Europe is the mirror of the USA (minus bad points) ... then what difference does it make that it so diverse?

Why should one corner of Europe, be the exact copy of another. Look how different Miami is from Seattle .... culturally and geographically.

Call Cyprus Middle Eastern if it doe not fit nicely into a Geographical box ... but mindset.... ..... you do not have a clue about the Middle East nor Cypriot thinking....

[CopperLine]

Since 'Europe' and 'European' is an idea, the response to the question 'are we really Europeans ?' depends entirely on what we take that idea to be.

Following David Hume, one principal way of identifying something is through a contrast, through establishing what it is not. Thus 'Europeans are not Americans', 'Europe is not Australasia', 'Europe is not ... ?' It's quite hard to think in these contrasting terms...what is Europe not ?

This lead me to think that Europe is whatever a prevailing political force/movement wants it to be. That's why I think the opening question of this thread is a good strong, but very difficult question to answer. I'm with Sega when s/he says 'I suppose Europe has very little to do with the European Union', just that the EU has come to be the prevailing force which has been imprinting an idea of Europe.

[phoenix]

Since 'Europe' and 'European' is an idea, the response to the question 'are we really Europeans ?' depends entirely on what we take that idea to be.

Following David Hume, one principal way of identifying something is through a contrast, through establishing what it is not. Thus 'Europeans are not Americans', 'Europe is not Australasia', 'Europe is not ... ?' It's quite hard to think in these contrasting terms...what is Europe not ?

This lead me to think that Europe is whatever a prevailing political force/movement wants it to be. That's why I think the opening question of this thread is a good strong, but very difficult question to answer. I'm with Sega when s/he says 'I suppose Europe has very little to do with the European Union', just that the EU has come to be the prevailing force which has been imprinting an idea of Europe.

What a convoluted way of saying "I don't have a clue"....

[Leffette]

Where are your from Bill?

No good asking me I'm just an immigrant in Cyprus but I am European though ~ Err I think

Bill

[Leffette]

Phoenix...SARCASTIC friend of mine already

I am Cypriot you WEIRDO...i just live in Canada, I cheer for each country I belong...
and this is

1) Cyprus
2) Canada
3) I wont tell you!!! ha ha

We can say with confidence that we joined Europe.
We can say with confidence our currency is Euro

Can we say with confidence that we are Europeans?

Whether your answer is YES or NO, justify why?

Leffette ... when you state "we" .... how do you as a Canadian fit into Europe?

[Nikitas]

European is a flexible definition.

There is a place in France, in the Massif Contral, where the division between the north and south is sudden and intense. Driving southwards you go past green pastures, plump cows, peaked roofs. It is the country of fresh cream and beer. Then you come to the ridge and the road dips south and all of a sudden you are in vinyards, olive groves, cypress trees. Goats graze in the hills and you are in wine country- this is Europe for some and I agree with them.

Cyprus is in this wine and olive belt and therefore it is European.

If you are comparing the administration efficiency then the comparison should not only be between Cyprus and France. Try comparing Cyprus with Romania, Bulgaria, Poland or the south of Italy and Portugal. You will then appreciate how European it is.

[shahmaran]

I don't think there are many EU countries i haven't been to and I find EU to be boringly different in the same way all over, it is actually sad to see.

Is this the price people pay for being "European", i honestly would hate the North to turn out like the South in many ways