Cyprus-Forum.com

[repulsewarrior]

...yes, they were, but i don't get your point.

[christos1]

Here historical back ground:

The inflexible constitution of 1960 not only denied the 82% of the population who were Greek Cypriots their legitimate right to self-determination in the shape of that long-desired union with their motherland, Greece, but in practice even denied the great majority of the population the possibility of effective self-government and internal democracy. In these circumstances it was not unnatural that political discontent encouraged hardline sentiments in many Greek Cypriots. These were fuelled by the Turkish Cypriot political leadership's, obstruction between 1960 and 1963 - under Turkey's tutelage - of democratic decisionmaking and by Turkey's continued build-up of a Turkish-officered para-military force. The two communities were soon locked into a constitutional crisis, which became even more serious when proposals by President Makarios for amendment of the unworkable constitution were rejected out of hand by Turkey. Soon thereafter, in December 1963, illegal organisations in both communities, the product of mutual suspicion and fear stirred by Turkey's policy of dividing the two communities, clashed. From then until 1968 inter-communal violence caused grave suffering to both communities.4 When these tragic disorders began, Turkish Cypriots were clearly well prepared. Their public representatives and public servants boycotted 1960 constitutional organs, describing these as dead, and set up their own governmental arrangements in areas which by force of arms and with aid from Turkey's contingent they kept separate in order to pave the way for Turkey's policy of partitioning the island. The UN Secretary-General, reporting on this situation in 1965, stated:
'The Turkish Cypriot leaders have adhered to a rigid stand against any measures which might involve having members of the two communities live and work together or which might place Turkish Cypriots in situations where they would have to acknowledge the authority of Government agents. Indeed, since the Turkish Cypriot leadership is committed to physical and geographical separation of the communities, as a political goal, it is not likely to encourage activities by Turkish Cypriots which may be interpreted as demonstrating the merits of an alternative policy. The result has been a seemingly deliberate policy of self-segregation by the Turkish Cypriots5. At the same time, Turkey threatened to invade Cyprus. She was only restrained from so doing by UN Security Council involvement and by President Johnson's direct intervention in 1964 and again in 1967. Indeed, during this period in order to pre-empt Turkish invasion a Greek regular armed force of 12,000 men was moved to Cyprus, but, on renewed threat of Turkish invasion, this force was - in conjunction with international diplomatic activity securing a Greek Turkish stand-off - withdrawn at the end of 1967. At the same time the political leaderships of both Greek and Turkish Cypriot communities were persuaded to begin the interminable process of inter-communal negotiation for a just settlement of the Cyprus question. The negotiations were however doomed because external powers interested in Cyprus manipulated both communities' fears and aspirations and blocked any agreement which would deny Turkey partition of the island or which would ensure the preservation of an independent non-aligned Cyprus State. There was now to be a turning point in Cyprus' history leading to catastrophe. Whatever the rights and the wrongs, actual or assumed, which preceded this turning point, the magnitude of the catastrophe and the massive suffering, ferociously and mercilessly inflicted by Turkey, was so grossly disproportionate as to vitiate any claim that she was acting in aid of the Turkish Cypriots. What followed was barbarism and atrocities.

[miltiades]

Here historical back ground:

The inflexible constitution of 1960 not only denied the 82% of the population who were Greek Cypriots their legitimate right to self-determination in the shape of that long-desired union with their motherland, Greece, but in practice even denied the great majority of the population the possibility of effective self-government and internal democracy. In these circumstances it was not unnatural that political discontent encouraged hardline sentiments in many Greek Cypriots. These were fuelled by the Turkish Cypriot political leadership's, obstruction between 1960 and 1963 - under Turkey's tutelage - of democratic decisionmaking and by Turkey's continued build-up of a Turkish-officered para-military force. The two communities were soon locked into a constitutional crisis, which became even more serious when proposals by President Makarios for amendment of the unworkable constitution were rejected out of hand by Turkey. Soon thereafter, in December 1963, illegal organisations in both communities, the product of mutual suspicion and fear stirred by Turkey's policy of dividing the two communities, clashed. From then until 1968 inter-communal violence caused grave suffering to both communities.4 When these tragic disorders began, Turkish Cypriots were clearly well prepared. Their public representatives and public servants boycotted 1960 constitutional organs, describing these as dead, and set up their own governmental arrangements in areas which by force of arms and with aid from Turkey's contingent they kept separate in order to pave the way for Turkey's policy of partitioning the island. The UN Secretary-General, reporting on this situation in 1965, stated:
'The Turkish Cypriot leaders have adhered to a rigid stand against any measures which might involve having members of the two communities live and work together or which might place Turkish Cypriots in situations where they would have to acknowledge the authority of Government agents. Indeed, since the Turkish Cypriot leadership is committed to physical and geographical separation of the communities, as a political goal, it is not likely to encourage activities by Turkish Cypriots which may be interpreted as demonstrating the merits of an alternative policy. The result has been a seemingly deliberate policy of self-segregation by the Turkish Cypriots5. At the same time, Turkey threatened to invade Cyprus. She was only restrained from so doing by UN Security Council involvement and by President Johnson's direct intervention in 1964 and again in 1967. Indeed, during this period in order to pre-empt Turkish invasion a Greek regular armed force of 12,000 men was moved to Cyprus, but, on renewed threat of Turkish invasion, this force was - in conjunction with international diplomatic activity securing a Greek Turkish stand-off - withdrawn at the end of 1967. At the same time the political leaderships of both Greek and Turkish Cypriot communities were persuaded to begin the interminable process of inter-communal negotiation for a just settlement of the Cyprus question. The negotiations were however doomed because external powers interested in Cyprus manipulated both communities' fears and aspirations and blocked any agreement which would deny Turkey partition of the island or which would ensure the preservation of an independent non-aligned Cyprus State. There was now to be a turning point in Cyprus' history leading to catastrophe. Whatever the rights and the wrongs, actual or assumed, which preceded this turning point, the magnitude of the catastrophe and the massive suffering, ferociously and mercilessly inflicted by Turkey, was so grossly disproportionate as to vitiate any claim that she was acting in aid of the Turkish Cypriots. What followed was barbarism and atrocities.

Why on earth would I , a Cypriot want to be part of that Foreign nation called Greece. My ancestors were not part of Greece , you along with thousands of simple minded Cypriots were indoctrinated and brainwashed to consider Greece as their motherland .The T/Cs underwent the same brainwashing and the result ?? Thousands dead , displaced , future conflict on the cards , why because we allowed the two cancerous nations to get a hold of our future , the future of Cypriots. Let me once again make an appeal to the motherland bullshitters to go and join them , leave Cyprus to us , the true Cypriots .

[repulsewarrior]

...indeed miliades, I shall call you Dr. M.

Christos, if "Greeks" had shown the grace to be inclusive, if they had made the attempt to recognise the needs of their "Turkish" brethren, Turcophones would not have found it necessry to find an identity other than Cypriot. Turkish Cypriots exist because Greek Cypriots exist. For Turkish Cypriots, "Cyprus" does not exist because of the insistence by this majority that the State is Greek, rather than Cypriot; marginalising them assures that affect.

What is wrong with the Turkish Army and its occupation? It is illegal. But, what was legal about the events of 1963? Cynically speaking there is no difference between the two events, 1963 and 1974, even the numbers are the same when you consider them as a proportion of a total population. What was acheived by the Turks, cutting the island in two, was the desire of the Greeks and the other interlocutors before our independance. This was thwarted be the Treaty of Zurich. Without this realisation all Cypriots will lose this most precious gift the rest of Mankind has offered us, an end to subjugation, Freedom, and a destiny which we can say is of our own choosing.

I am Greek, and I am proud of my origins because of this civilzation's great contribution to Humanity's betterment. This has nothing to do with modern day politics, or the existence of Greece. I am Cypriot, and I am proud of my origins, because before our identity as a country we survived thousands of years of occupation to become a society of cooperators, which was before our stupid navel gazing, the most socialised people in the world.

As far as I'm concerned, the "Greeks" of Cyprus do not deserve the power they have as Cypriots in the politics of this island because of the selfish and ignorant exclusivity of their desires.

Similarly, the "Turks" of Cyprus are no better, being the other face of the very same coin.

What is ironic is that neither can get past their "glorious" misery, how much they are victims, etc. The future, to which they are blind to will swallow them up whole. Or, do you think that our demographics will remain the same forever, with our membership in the EU, or an end to the misery in the region, peace in the Middle East, and an end to Africa's plight. Did you know, that in two hundred years that our population on this island may grow to 12 million? How many of these people will count themselves as we do today?

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=15874&postdays=0&postorder=asc&vote=viewresult

In this context please read my topic "A Just Proposal", under Cyprus Problem Solution Proposals.
It will not make you happy but it is a Cypriot proposal at least, because it is truly Bicommunal, and it is truly Bizonal, which has as a concern, a dynamic future for both, as well as for all.