Cyprus-Forum.com

[74LB]

miltiades

I recall in July of 1974 while on holiday in my flat in Famagusta seeing hundreds of T/Cs coming out of the walled city and going without hindrance to their daily chores , this was days before the coup ......

I too was in Famagusta in July 74 and prior to the coup there may well have been 'normal' existence, but in the 5 days leading up to 20th July the vast majority of TC's remained well within their boundaries. They were scared shitless of say venturing out, or going into Varosha, or other areas through the uncertainty of what was going on.

There is no doubt in any TC mind that the Turkish armies intervention put a stop to any possible uprising against the TC community. In the madness that was the coup, who really knows what the final outcome would have been.
Just think of those poor moslem souls in Srebrenica where the whole world watched and knew they would be massacred and did NOTHING to prevent it, with or without the UN and so-called safe havens.

So the whole invasion and continued occupation of half our island is based on pure supposition ... nothing more.

No evidence, no actual figures of any harm done to TCs.

Merely hang the GCs just in case one day, somehow, they may decide to do the TCs harm.

Destroy everyone in the neighbourhood of Turkey ...create a huge exclusion zone around the whole of Turkey ...... so that there can never be anybody within striking distance of a Turk.

What a modern effective country you have ....

And then you have the audacity to scream that you are isolated.

That's your view and your interpretation. Read the following and tell me how safe these people were, how safe these people felt with the comfort of safe havens, the comfort of knowing thousands of UN troops were there to protect them.......

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/675945.stm

and then tell me that the TC's would have been safe, tell me there was nothing to worry about, tell me that the UN will call a meeting and agree the best way forward, just wait and see, and all because Phoenix says so.

Read Zans post on the 1st page of this very topic..... here's a section....

Greece supported Milosevic’s Serbia more wholeheartedly than did any other state; Milosevic was more popular in Greece than he ever was in Serbia itself; Greek fascist paramilitaries participated in the Serb conquest of Srebrenica in 1995. The Greek journalist Takis Michas has described the virulence of Greek support, both at the elite and at the popular level, for Serbian imperialism and ethnic-cleansing in his brilliant but shocking book, ‘Unholy Alliance: Greece and Milosevic’s Serbia’ (Texas A&M University Press, 2002).

and then tell me again that there was nothing to worry about.

And on the isolation front, yes, we may be isolated but that is preferable to me so that my folks in the TRNC sleep peacefully in their beds, go peacefully to work, and they all return home again. How many (from both communities) ventured out never to return. I'm sorry, but you cannot put a price on this.

[ossen]

I think less then the number of people (Turkish and Greeks, socialists and democrats) murdered by fascist EOKA...

[miltiades]

miltiades

I recall in July of 1974 while on holiday in my flat in Famagusta seeing hundreds of T/Cs coming out of the walled city and going without hindrance to their daily chores , this was days before the coup ......

I too was in Famagusta in July 74 and prior to the coup there may well have been 'normal' existence, but in the 5 days leading up to 20th July the vast majority of TC's remained well within their boundaries. They were scared shitless of say venturing out, or going into Varosha, or other areas through the uncertainty of what was going on.

There is no doubt in any TC mind that the Turkish armies intervention put a stop to any possible uprising against the TC community. In the madness that was the coup, who really knows what the final outcome would have been.
Just think of those poor moslem souls in Srebrenica where the whole world watched and knew they would be massacred and did NOTHING to prevent it, with or without the UN and so-called safe havens.

So the whole invasion and continued occupation of half our island is based on pure supposition ... nothing more.

No evidence, no actual figures of any harm done to TCs.

Merely hang the GCs just in case one day, somehow, they may decide to do the TCs harm.

Destroy everyone in the neighbourhood of Turkey ...create a huge exclusion zone around the whole of Turkey ...... so that there can never be anybody within striking distance of a Turk.

What a modern effective country you have ....

And then you have the audacity to scream that you are isolated.

That's your view and your interpretation. Read the following and tell me how safe these people were, how safe these people felt with the comfort of safe havens, the comfort of knowing thousands of UN troops were there to protect them.......

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/675945.stm

and then tell me that the TC's would have been safe, tell me there was nothing to worry about, tell me that the UN will call a meeting and agree the best way forward, just wait and see, and all because Phoenix says so.

Read Zans post on the 1st page of this very topic..... here's a section....

Greece supported Milosevic’s Serbia more wholeheartedly than did any other state; Milosevic was more popular in Greece than he ever was in Serbia itself; Greek fascist paramilitaries participated in the Serb conquest of Srebrenica in 1995. The Greek journalist Takis Michas has described the virulence of Greek support, both at the elite and at the popular level, for Serbian imperialism and ethnic-cleansing in his brilliant but shocking book, ‘Unholy Alliance: Greece and Milosevic’s Serbia’ (Texas A&M University Press, 2002).

and then tell me again that there was nothing to worry about.

And on the isolation front, yes, we may be isolated but that is preferable to me so that my folks in the TRNC sleep peacefully in their beds, go peacefully to work, and they all return home again. How many (from both communities) ventured out never to return. I'm sorry, but you cannot put a price on this.

The T/Cs have been in Cyprus for more than 400 years , to be precise about 437 years . To take a few years , highly charged by unprecedented events and generalise it is wrong. The G/Cs and T/Cs lived side by side for centuries , hence the amount of mixed villages that existed prior to the conflict. No one can now say that we can no longer live together and that we need 40 thousand foreign troops on our soil.
For as long as the overwhelming majority of Cypriots see Turkey as the invader and violator of their rights no amount of propaganda will help to convince otherwise.
The continuance of the occupation of part of Cyprus by Turkey must come to an end and all Cypriots must see each other as their equal , not a member of a minority or a majority group.

[74LB]

Miltiades

The T/Cs have been in Cyprus for more than 400 years , to be precise about 437 years . To take a few years , highly charged by unprecedented events and generalise it is wrong. The G/Cs and T/Cs lived side by side for centuries , hence the amount of mixed villages that existed prior to the conflict. No one can now say that we can no longer live together and that we need 40 thousand foreign troops on our soil.
For as long as the overwhelming majority of Cypriots see Turkey as the invader and violator of their rights no amount of propaganda will help to convince otherwise.
The continuance of the occupation of part of Cyprus by Turkey must come to an end and all Cypriots must see each other as their equal , not a member of a minority or a majority group.

I fully agree that we don't need 40000 troops and the TC's were willing (via the Annan Plan) for this number to dwindle to well below 1000 over the course of time.

The occupation (your words) of Cyprus WILL come to an end as long as both communities are satisfied that past events can never be repeated.

In simple terms, the GC's want the Turkish troops out and their land back, the TC's want security more than anything else.

How we get there is the question - no side is now willing to concede at the moment. Its a waiting game, with no end in sight.

[Viewpoint]

At the current juncture what difference does having 40.000 or 100.000 soldiers, the GCs rejected reducing these to a symbolic 650 that shows you that they are not interested in the other parts of an agreement they only part they want is to get rid of our safeguards, I would hate to imagine the mayhem if the Turkish army left tomorrow without an agreement, we would be mincemeat overnight.

[miltiades]

At the current juncture what difference does having 40.000 or 100.000 soldiers, the GCs rejected reducing these to a symbolic 650 that shows you that they are not interested in the other parts of an agreement they only part they want is to get rid of our safeguards, I would hate to imagine the mayhem if the Turkish army left tomorrow without an agreement, we would be mincemeat overnight.

Then so would I because I would not stand by and watch my compatriots being butchered !!! I wonder what the EU would make of it !!

[Viewpoint]

At the current juncture what difference does having 40.000 or 100.000 soldiers, the GCs rejected reducing these to a symbolic 650 that shows you that they are not interested in the other parts of an agreement they only part they want is to get rid of our safeguards, I would hate to imagine the mayhem if the Turkish army left tomorrow without an agreement, we would be mincemeat overnight.

Then so would I because I would not stand by and watch my compatriots being butchered !!! I wonder what the EU would make of it !!

The same as what they made of the slaughter in Bosnia, they did nothing we do not want to take that chance, I am sure you can understand why we need definate safety measure to ensure that neither side is put in danger.

[miltiades]

At the current juncture what difference does having 40.000 or 100.000 soldiers, the GCs rejected reducing these to a symbolic 650 that shows you that they are not interested in the other parts of an agreement they only part they want is to get rid of our safeguards, I would hate to imagine the mayhem if the Turkish army left tomorrow without an agreement, we would be mincemeat overnight.

Then so would I because I would not stand by and watch my compatriots being butchered !!! I wonder what the EU would make of it !!

The same as what they made of the slaughter in Bosnia, they did nothing we do not want to take that chance, I am sure you can understand why we need definate safety measure to ensure that neither side is put in danger.

I entirely agree that no Cypriot should feel threatened and that is one major reason I opposed the AP which gave Turkey the right to intervene anywhere in Cyprus and without any guarantees that she would abide by her commitments and reduce the presence of the Turkish army in Cyprus.
We need external guarantees and those must come not from Turkey , Greece or Britain but from Europe and the UN.

[zan]

At the current juncture what difference does having 40.000 or 100.000 soldiers, the GCs rejected reducing these to a symbolic 650 that shows you that they are not interested in the other parts of an agreement they only part they want is to get rid of our safeguards, I would hate to imagine the mayhem if the Turkish army left tomorrow without an agreement, we would be mincemeat overnight.

Then so would I because I would not stand by and watch my compatriots being butchered !!! I wonder what the EU would make of it !!

The same as what they made of the slaughter in Bosnia, they did nothing we do not want to take that chance, I am sure you can understand why we need definate safety measure to ensure that neither side is put in danger.

I entirely agree that no Cypriot should feel threatened and that is one major reason I opposed the AP which gave Turkey the right to intervene anywhere in Cyprus and without any guarantees that she would abide by her commitments and reduce the presence of the Turkish army in Cyprus.
We need external guarantees and those must come not from Turkey , Greece or Britain but from Europe and the UN.

So now I know what you are trying to say......That there was no outright killing by the gun so nothing else matters. My cousins van was filled with bullet holes in 74 two weeks before the Coup but he was not killed you are right. We were still not able to get back into our rightful position in government and were still under siege as a people. The very people that killed and raped us the first time round in 1963 had seized the country and were killing GCs that were against them by the thousand. The biggest henchman had been put in as president. The build up of arms was concentrated around the TC villages and much more besides and you dare to call what we feared a perceived threat.......I suppose Samson was ready to sign an agreement or invite us back into government and that is why he tried to murder Makarios..... Next time someone walks into your shop with a pair of tights on his head and a gun in his hand, make sure to be polite and ask "can I help you sir"........FFS At least have the decency to acknowledge the fact that Makarios was ASKING for intervention.....

[miltiades]

The military coup that ousted Makarios and gave Turkey the excuse that for years she was waiting for was carried out by the Military junta of Greece aided by the fanatics in Cyprus . The huge majority of Cypriots were firmly against the coup . You seem to have a hidden agenda , one that promotes your sinister partitionist ambitions that you are so certain that you , Zan that is , will achieve. You talk of rape and killings and you ignore the plight of thousands killed by the Turkish invasion , thousands pushed out of their ancestral homes and the bitterness manifested by the Turkish invasion .You must forgive , forget , respect and be respected.I have done this and so can you if you only allow the hatred that you feel subside.
Over 8000 posts , what constructive points have you managed to promote , just look at your signature , are you forgetting that 1000s of T/Cs cross into the ROC , daily without let or hindrance. Yes there are spiteful people amongst us , you for instance , and we must not allow these hooligans to win. Stop spreading hatred and malicious propaganda , the people of Cyprus have had a belly full , enough to last for the next millennium.