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HOW MANY CYPRIOTS MURDERED 7 YEARS BEFORE TURKISH INVASION

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Re: HOW MANY CYPRIOTS MURDERED 7 YEARS BEFORE TURKISH INVASI

Postby RAFAELLA » Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:50 pm

miltiades wrote:I'm just SICK reading all the bullshit posted by the partitionists justifying the Turkish invasion in order to put an end to the "genocide " taking place . Go on , foreigners , tell us how many Cypriots were murdered prior to the invasion.Many new comers to the forum would be thinking that due to systematic killing of Cypriots Turkey was forced to invade .
Zan you are the one who continually post such nonsense .
Now here is my challenge to you.
HOW MANY CYPRIOTS WERE MASSACRED IN ORDER TO FORCE TURKEY TO INVADE CYPRUS , 7 YEARS BEFORE 1974.
Please tell us.
If you cant then do us a favour and admit that all that you want is for part of our nation to be absorbed by a foreign country that the overwhelming majority of G/Cs and a size able minority of T/Cs see as an occupying power.

Where are you Zan? Still counting? :lol:
Well, how many Tcs were massacred or how many Tcs are still missing?
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Re: HOW MANY CYPRIOTS MURDERED 7 YEARS BEFORE TURKISH INVASI

Postby GreekForumer » Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:15 pm

miltiades wrote:I'm just SICK reading all the bullshit posted by the partitionists justifying the Turkish invasion in order to put an end to the "genocide " taking place . Go on , foreigners , tell us how many Cypriots were murdered prior to the invasion.Many new comers to the forum would be thinking that due to systematic killing of Cypriots Turkey was forced to invade .
Zan you are the one who continually post such nonsense .
Now here is my challenge to you.
HOW MANY CYPRIOTS WERE MASSACRED IN ORDER TO FORCE TURKEY TO INVADE CYPRUS , 7 YEARS BEFORE 1974.
Please tell us.
If you cant then do us a favour and admit that all that you want is for part of our nation to be absorbed by a foreign country that the overwhelming majority of G/Cs and a size able minority of T/Cs see as an occupying power.



The table below EXCLUDES the missing TCs. (source www.kktc-sehitaileleri.org)
Code: Select all
Year Age 0-10     11-16     17-60     60+
1956      .         .         13        1
1957      .         2          7        .
1958      .         3         70       11
1959      .         .          1        .
1960      .         .          2        .
1961      .         .          3        .
1962      .         .          3        .
1963      5         .        125        9
1964      2         3        110       17
1965      .         1         21        .
1966      .         .         20        .
1967      3         4         47        7
1968      .         .          6        .
1969      .         .          3        .
1970      .         .          3        .
1971      .         .          7        .
1972      .         .          8        .
1973      .         .          3        .
1974      4         6        244        14


Missing TCs can be found in this this document. Perhaps someone can add the missing to the table above.
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Postby umit07 » Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:32 pm

observer wrote:Miltiades is correct, up to a point. Instead of trying to force Enosis by killing TCs, which hadn’t worked in 63, the GC leadership tried to reduce the TC population of Cyprus by stealth, making life in Cyprus as difficult as possible using economic and political means. Anyone who doubts this has only to read the Akritas plan, co-written at the request of the first GC President by the current GC President, ‘the defender of the frontier of Hellenism’.

But this was too slow for some Greeks and GCs, who carried out the coup in 74.

Sampson’s ‘If Turkey had not intervened, I would not only have proclaimed ENOSIS (annexation to Greece) - I would have annihilated the Turks in Cyprus’ is often used to claim that TCs would have been killed. The speed with which some massacres took place is an indicator that he would probably have done that, so Turkey would have had that as a justification for intervening,

Less attention, however, is paid to the first part, ‘If Turkey had not intervened, I would ... have proclaimed ENOSIS’. Both the junta in Greece and Sampson fell from power only after, and as a result of, Turkey’s intervention. It is a reasonable supposition that in 74 a declaration of enosis would have succeeded. All GC politicians had been calling for it for years, receiving popular support, and being voted into office. Whatever GCs may say now, Turkey certainly had every reason to fear that it would happen.

If that were the case, Turkey would then have the option of doing nothing, and a reasonable fear of TCs being killed or at least driven off Cyprus, or going to war with what would have then been Greece. Faced with an attack by Turkey on part of Greece, it is reasonable to expect the Greek public to be overcome with patriotism. The result would have been a much bigger war, perhaps spreading to the Aegean, and with a much worse outcome for all Cypriots.

Much of the above is hypothetical since history can not be re-run. But you can not deny that all significant GC politicians were demanding enosis prior to 74 (and I can’t think of one who has publicly recanted to this day) so the above scenario is a very realistic one.



Mil. What are you trying to prove? I found "Observer's" observation to be a very good one. Yes you can say that there weren't many mass killings leading to the year 74. Why? because most of it had been already be done 100 TC villages had already been abandoned . TC's who had left thier villages found refuge at completely TC villages or ones which had a larger TC population. TC's were living in ghetto like conditions on 3 % of island, people had to go through checkpoints where they were searched by Greeks. Form time to time TC's would vanish after stopping at a checkpoint. Red Cresent donations of food and medical supplies were subjected to tax and duty by GC port authorities. Makarios was a smarter man he knew any sudden moves would get a reaction from Turkey so he had to take it slow, but sampson and the junta lot wanted to speed things up. It was the GC's who DESTROYED the CYPRIOTNESS with all the acts they put foward. GC's have to stand up and take the blame for what they did.
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Postby BC Numismatics » Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:37 pm

Umit,it wasn't the Greek Cypriots who destroyed Cyprus as a united country.It was both Greece & Turkey themselves,as they've stuck their noses into where they weren't wanted.

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Postby umit07 » Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:47 pm

BC Numismatics wrote:Umit,it wasn't the Greek Cypriots who destroyed Cyprus as a united country.It was both Greece & Turkey themselves,as they've stuck their noses into where they weren't wanted.

Aidan.


Aidan, If I am pissed off at some guy and I give you a gun to go shoot the guy. You go off and murder someone does that make you innocent? I don't think so! Everyone has to take their share of the blame!
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Postby BC Numismatics » Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:53 pm

Umit,nothing changes that both Greece & Turkey have been using Cyprus as a pawn in their braindead game.Both Enosis & Taksim will finally be buried the day that a united Federal Republic of Cyprus comes into being.It would be nice if a Turkish Cypriot is allowed to become President of Cyprus in the same way as a Greek Cypriot is.

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Postby Viewpoint » Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:01 pm

umit07 wrote:
observer wrote:Miltiades is correct, up to a point. Instead of trying to force Enosis by killing TCs, which hadn’t worked in 63, the GC leadership tried to reduce the TC population of Cyprus by stealth, making life in Cyprus as difficult as possible using economic and political means. Anyone who doubts this has only to read the Akritas plan, co-written at the request of the first GC President by the current GC President, ‘the defender of the frontier of Hellenism’.

But this was too slow for some Greeks and GCs, who carried out the coup in 74.

Sampson’s ‘If Turkey had not intervened, I would not only have proclaimed ENOSIS (annexation to Greece) - I would have annihilated the Turks in Cyprus’ is often used to claim that TCs would have been killed. The speed with which some massacres took place is an indicator that he would probably have done that, so Turkey would have had that as a justification for intervening,

Less attention, however, is paid to the first part, ‘If Turkey had not intervened, I would ... have proclaimed ENOSIS’. Both the junta in Greece and Sampson fell from power only after, and as a result of, Turkey’s intervention. It is a reasonable supposition that in 74 a declaration of enosis would have succeeded. All GC politicians had been calling for it for years, receiving popular support, and being voted into office. Whatever GCs may say now, Turkey certainly had every reason to fear that it would happen.

If that were the case, Turkey would then have the option of doing nothing, and a reasonable fear of TCs being killed or at least driven off Cyprus, or going to war with what would have then been Greece. Faced with an attack by Turkey on part of Greece, it is reasonable to expect the Greek public to be overcome with patriotism. The result would have been a much bigger war, perhaps spreading to the Aegean, and with a much worse outcome for all Cypriots.

Much of the above is hypothetical since history can not be re-run. But you can not deny that all significant GC politicians were demanding enosis prior to 74 (and I can’t think of one who has publicly recanted to this day) so the above scenario is a very realistic one.



Mil. What are you trying to prove? I found "Observer's" observation to be a very good one. Yes you can say that there weren't many mass killings leading to the year 74. Why? because most of it had been already be done 100 TC villages had already been abandoned . TC's who had left thier villages found refuge at completely TC villages or ones which had a larger TC population. TC's were living in ghetto like conditions on 3 % of island, people had to go through checkpoints where they were searched by Greeks. Form time to time TC's would vanish after stopping at a checkpoint. Red Cresent donations of food and medical supplies were subjected to tax and duty by GC port authorities. Makarios was a smarter man he knew any sudden moves would get a reaction from Turkey so he had to take it slow, but sampson and the junta lot wanted to speed things up. It was the GC's who DESTROYED the CYPRIOTNESS with all the acts they put foward. GC's have to stand up and take the blame for what they did.


Excellent post Umit.
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Postby miltiades » Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:12 pm

umit07 wrote:
observer wrote:Miltiades is correct, up to a point. Instead of trying to force Enosis by killing TCs, which hadn’t worked in 63, the GC leadership tried to reduce the TC population of Cyprus by stealth, making life in Cyprus as difficult as possible using economic and political means. Anyone who doubts this has only to read the Akritas plan, co-written at the request of the first GC President by the current GC President, ‘the defender of the frontier of Hellenism’.

But this was too slow for some Greeks and GCs, who carried out the coup in 74.

Sampson’s ‘If Turkey had not intervened, I would not only have proclaimed ENOSIS (annexation to Greece) - I would have annihilated the Turks in Cyprus’ is often used to claim that TCs would have been killed. The speed with which some massacres took place is an indicator that he would probably have done that, so Turkey would have had that as a justification for intervening,

Less attention, however, is paid to the first part, ‘If Turkey had not intervened, I would ... have proclaimed ENOSIS’. Both the junta in Greece and Sampson fell from power only after, and as a result of, Turkey’s intervention. It is a reasonable supposition that in 74 a declaration of enosis would have succeeded. All GC politicians had been calling for it for years, receiving popular support, and being voted into office. Whatever GCs may say now, Turkey certainly had every reason to fear that it would happen.

If that were the case, Turkey would then have the option of doing nothing, and a reasonable fear of TCs being killed or at least driven off Cyprus, or going to war with what would have then been Greece. Faced with an attack by Turkey on part of Greece, it is reasonable to expect the Greek public to be overcome with patriotism. The result would have been a much bigger war, perhaps spreading to the Aegean, and with a much worse outcome for all Cypriots.

Much of the above is hypothetical since history can not be re-run. But you can not deny that all significant GC politicians were demanding enosis prior to 74 (and I can’t think of one who has publicly recanted to this day) so the above scenario is a very realistic one.



Mil. What are you trying to prove? I found "Observer's" observation to be a very good one. Yes you can say that there weren't many mass killings leading to the year 74. Why? because most of it had been already be done 100 TC villages had already been abandoned . TC's who had left thier villages found refuge at completely TC villages or ones which had a larger TC population. TC's were living in ghetto like conditions on 3 % of island, people had to go through checkpoints where they were searched by Greeks. Form time to time TC's would vanish after stopping at a checkpoint. Red Cresent donations of food and medical supplies were subjected to tax and duty by GC port authorities. Makarios was a smarter man he knew any sudden moves would get a reaction from Turkey so he had to take it slow, but sampson and the junta lot wanted to speed things up. It was the GC's who DESTROYED the CYPRIOTNESS with all the acts they put foward. GC's have to stand up and take the blame for what they did.

Umit , my point is that T/Cs and G/Cs lived together in peace for many years until the ugly head of "Motherland aspirations " rose up and split the people of Cyprus. There many on this forum who have posted that Turkey's "intervention " was to put a stop to the killing of T/Cs , this is not true and every one knows this. As our friend LB74 posted , its what might have happened had the coup succeeded and Samson was to become a permanent "president" I agreed with him , LB74 , that given the complexity such a possibility of renewed conflict could happen.
I also try to silence those propaganda pundits who are saying that Turkeys "intervention " was to put an end to a perceived massacre that simply was not happening.
The killing of even one T/C or G/C by fanatics is one too many.
Promoting the idea that a massacre was taking place is counter productive and only serves the interests of those Cypriots who want our island divided for ever. I stand by my principles and I reiterate that my ambition is to see a Turkish Cypriot head of a united Cyprus working for the people of Cyprus in exclusion of all other agendas.
Any promotion instigated by whoever has sinister plans for the future of our island must be challenged.Those that believe that the future of our people is dependant on the extinction of the Cypriot identity and the annexation of Cyprus by foreign powers must be challenged.Our island must remain as Cypriot.
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Postby Nikitas » Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:21 pm

What a load of nonsense we read here!

TMT had a separation policy since the 1950s, that is when we had the first no go areas in Cyprus.

From 1968 to 1974 there were no violent clashes and TCs were free to enter the GC areas and work there. As usual the GCs could not enter the TC areas.

I am not implying that things were rosy for the TCs but we must retain some sense of proportion and realise that the separation of the two communities was not an exclusively GC policy.

By 1973 a solution had been worked out and was about to be signed. It was based on the cantonal system with separate municipalities and mostly based on the 1960 constitution.

The table posted above shows the casualty figures and it tells a lot about the claims of genocide posted here. When that kind of hard fact is not enough we get the perennial propagandists coming along with claims of starvation and pesilence afflicting the TCs. Well, post the total annual death figures for the TC s then and blame every single one on GCs!
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Postby umit07 » Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:31 pm

miltiades, What are you trying to prove exactly? What is the important point here? Are you trying to discredit Turkeys reasons for intervention? I believe that Turkey had justifiable reason to use military force ever since the day of Makarios's amendmants in the constitution. My view is that Turkey was very calm up to the events up to 74 and that Turkey had very right intervene in 74. Miltiades I personally believe that TC's aren't that fanatic about Turkishness to the extent GC's are crazy about thier Greekness. Just look around you every flag of the RoC has a flag of Greece beside it and you are a so called republic ( just like in the north) thats why to me the RoC is no more legal than our TRNC.
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