Cyprus-Forum.com

[metecyp]

Look, we will not give up our human rights and democracy. For nobody and for nothing.
If you can deprive us from democracy and our human rights in one way or another then do it, but don't expect from us to surrender. We will not do it - NEVER.

You get into this kind of arguments whenever you cannot communicate your ideas. Nobody is asking anyone to surrender, I don't regard you as my enemy, and hence I don't ask for surrender. You're talking about Ottomans which is completely irrelevant to the current situation. Nobody is trying to get you out of Cyprus, so why are you even bringing that up?

Go ahead and keep "fighting" for your rights, but when your rights clash with other people's rights, then you have to compromise, or you won't get anywhere. It seems like you don't get this simple fact, but sooner or later, you'll realize. I just hope people like you do not stand in the way. That's all.

[Piratis]

Of course you hope that "people like me" will not get in your way of gaining on our expense.
But people like me (majority of Cypriots) will give their answer to you soon.

My rights clash with nobody's rights. Is what you ask for that clash with our human rights. You are the ones who asked for derivations and not us. You are the ones who can not accept democracy and not us.

[metecyp]

But people like me (majority of Cypriots) will give their answer to you soon.

Go ahead, if majority of GCs sincerely believe that this plan is not good, then there's no point in trying to implement it. I read the same type of reactions when RC was formed in 1960, and I read Makarious was blamed for signing the agreements that formed RC and ended Enosis. Now, the same people are the biggest supporters of RC, and they reject Annan plan. If this plan is rejected, I'm afraid we'll wait another 40 years, and a worse plan will be on the table, I guess you'll be supporting Annan plan then if you're still alive.

Secondly, a "Yes" from TC side (which is very likely) and a "No" vote from GC side will change the dynamics of Cyprus problem dramatically. Can't you see that? I'm not trying to "scare" you to say "Yes" for the plan, but I hope you realize the consequences of saying "No". First time since 1974, the Turkish side will get the support of the whole world, while the Greek side will be blamed for the non-solution.

My rights clash with nobody's rights. Is what you ask for that clash with our human rights. You are the ones who asked for derivations and not us. You are the ones who can not accept democracy and not us.

Yeah, go and tell the EU and the UN as well that they are the ones who can not accept democracy since they fully support the plan. Can't you see how funny this sounds? Let me tell you this my friend. It's very hard to argue against the whole international community. I guess you have a different sense of democracy that the whole international community cannot grasp.

[Piratis]

Oh, now you listen to what the UN says? For 30 years you showed no respect to the UN resolutions. If you listened, the Turkish troops should have left Cyprus long time already.

We had 200.000 refugees and we lost 1/3 of our land and still we managed to move ahead and now you want to take what we gained away from us because you didn't manage to achieve anything. What you always had was something illegal and it still is. Your "state" is not recognized by the UN or anybody else. So since when you are following the international law and we are not??

If we vote "no" is our decision and there is nothing illegal about it. But your "state" and the presence of Turkish troops in Cyprus are illegal according to the UN.

[metecyp]

First of all, why do you waste your time in this forum if you're not going to learn anything? If you're not going to change your mind, then what's the point of all these discussions? You keep telling me the same things over and over, I haven't observed any change in your opinion whatsoever, so what's the point if you think you know it all?

And also, you should think before you write. I never said I approved of not respecting UN resolutions, I never said I support the huge military presence in the north, and so on. There are some things beyond TC control and today's situation is not just TC fault but your side's fault as well. So stop blaming everything on us.

We had 200.000 refugees and we lost 1/3 of our land and still we managed to move ahead and now you want to take what we gained away from us because you didn't manage to achieve anything

Do you really think that's why we want a solution, "to take what you gained"?? I'm very disappointed, I don't know what to say after such a claim. Go ahead keep everything to yourself. Go ahead and use RC just for your community, as you've been doing in the last 40 years. You act as if you own Cyprus, and we're trying to take it away from you. Your mentality is the reason why we're debating the same issues after 40 years.

So since when you are following the international law and we are not??

After we say "Yes" to Annan plan, and your side says "Oxi", you'll see how the whole dynamics change. Keep denying that nothing will change in Cyprus problem after a "Yes" from the TC side, and "No" from the GC side.

I don't want to discuss with you anymore, it's proved to be useless time after time.

[antonis]

We had 200.000 refugees and we lost 1/3 of our land and still we managed to move ahead and now you want to take what we gained away from us because you didn't manage to achieve anything. What you always had was something illegal and it still is. Your "state" is not recognized by the UN or anybody else. So since when you are following the international law and we are not??

If we vote "no" is our decision and there is nothing illegal about it. But your "state" and the presence of Turkish troops in Cyprus are illegal according to the UN.

This attitude will NEVER bring any other solution on the island but partition. If this is what you want, then NO Annan plan will satisfy you.

All these years, the GC side has relied on the UN to find a "just, lasting solution". Here's what the UN believes is even a balanced solution - this is what Alvaro de Soto said in front of the Security Council yesterday. I don't believe that this is as balanced as Annan 3, but here we are.

If we choose to vote NO, yes, there's nothing illegal about it. But the Cyprus problem will remain stagnant until... the side which is to blame, i.e. the GC side, finds a way to re-starting negotiations, like what happened in 1988.

So what I suggest we do is read the proposed plan carefully, many provisions have changed from Annan 4 that I'm sure you are not aware of. Understand that it is to our benefit to find a solution now, eventhough it might not satisfy us 100% rather than in 20 years with worse conditions. We have to be calm, open-minded and look into the future, not in the past. People that will vote NO are helping Turkey get away without solving the Cyprus problem. Or did you think that this is the perfect plan for the Turkish side?

[Piratis]

First of all, why do you waste your time in this forum if you're not going to learn anything? If you're not going to change your mind, then what's the point of all these discussions? You keep telling me the same things over and over, I haven't observed any change in your opinion whatsoever, so what's the point if you think you know it all?

Same question to you.

And also, you should think before you write. I never said I approved of not respecting UN resolutions, I never said I support the huge military presence in the north, and so on. There are some things beyond TC control and today's situation is not just TC fault but your side's fault as well. So stop blaming everything on us.

When we are talking about international law we are not talking about you and me. What you say is irrelevant in this case. Is your sides actions that count, and those actions are and will remain illegal. I don't blame you personally, but the official policy of Turkey (which also controls TC).

Do you really think that's why we want a solution, "to take what you gained"??

Of course. Do you think is coincidence that you remembered about peace after you saw that we would join the EU?

Go ahead keep everything to yourself. Go ahead and use RC just for your community, as you've been doing in the last 40 years. You act as if you own Cyprus, and we're trying to take it away from you. Your mentality is the reason why we're debating the same issues after 40 years.

You forced 200.000 refugees out of their homes and their properties. Those people lost everything. The rest of us had to pay a lot (and we still do) so those refugees would be able to stand on their feet again.
And now you come and tell me that I want to keep everything for myself??

The court decided that Turkey had to pay Titina Loizidou. All the rest of the refugees are just like her. But according to the Annan plan, the victims (us) will have to compensate the victims (us again) for the damage that the invader caused to us. Not only this, we will have to pay those that for 30 years occupied our land also! Soon you will ask from us to pay for the cost of the invasion!!!

I act as if I own Cyprus??? You are a mere 18% minority and you occupy 30% of the ground and you are telling me that I act as if I own Cyprus???

After we say "Yes" to Annan plan, and your side says "Oxi", you'll see how the whole dynamics change. Keep denying that nothing will change in Cyprus problem after a "Yes" from the TC side, and "No" from the GC side.

And what will change? They are going to "kill us" so we now have to suicide?

[Piratis]

This attitude will NEVER bring any other solution on the island but partition

Maybe but saying yes to the Annan plan is partition again. Actually the Annan plan is even worst than partition.

[antonis]

This attitude will NEVER bring any other solution on the island but partition

Maybe but saying yes to the Annan plan is partition again. Actually the Annan plan is even worst than partition.

Why don't you tell me why you think this is so by quoting parts in the 5th Annan plan.

[metecyp]

Firstly, this is an over simplification. Why don't you tell me why you think this is so by quoting parts in the 5th Annan plan.

He can't quote because he hasn't read the plan. If he reads the plan, he'll understand the fine balanced structure. For example, according to the latest plan, there will be no explicit veto power for TCs, this is something that he complained a lot.