Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

One of the key issues in the solution that we Cypriots cannot agree on is property.
If Ahmet built a villa for 100.000 on GC land previously Yorgos worth 20.000, but exchanged his land deeds in the south worth 30.000, whos land is it?? how do resolve this dileama???Do we give the villa and land to Yorgo and kick Ahmet out?? would Yorgo pay for the villa???or do we compensate Yorgo??? or do we compensate Ahmet and throw him out??*

[metecyp]

That's why there will be a property/land commission that will deal with such cases. The problem will easily be solved if Ahmet pays 20.000 for the land to Yorgo and Yorgo accepts it. Or Yorgo pays for the villa and Ahmet accepts it. Otherwise, the commission will have a procedure to go through to decide who owns/owes what.

[magikthrill]

One of the key issues in the solution that we Cypriots cannot agree on is property.
If Ahmet built a villa for 100.000 on GC land previously Yorgos worth 20.000, but exchanged his land deeds in the south worth 30.000, whos land is it?? how do resolve this dileama???Do we give the villa and land to Yorgo and kick Ahmet out?? would Yorgo pay for the villa???or do we compensate Yorgo??? or do we compensate Ahmet and throw him out??*

There are many ways to solve this. First of all it depends on the status of Ahmet. Is he a TC refugee (First priority), a nonrefugee 2nd priority) TC or a settler (no priority)?

In the first case Ahmet should be able to choose. He will pay what the cost of the house when Yorgos was forcily removed as well as the current cost of the property.

Second case Yiorgos should have the right to return and pay any difference in value. Ahmet must be compensated (Turkey and RoC?). Of course a deal can be reached between Yiorgo and Ahmet if Yiorgo does not care to return to his ancestral home.

Third case, settlers are removed. Turkey will have to compensate them. Now Where they go? Yiorgo should care less seeing as they are not Yiorgos co-citizens.


Is this good enough for you ?

[Piratis]

If Ahmet built a villa for 100.000 on GC land previously Yorgos worth 20.000, but exchanged his land deeds in the south worth 30.000, whos land is it??

You answered your own question.

There was no exchange. Yiorgos never agreed for such exchange. Can I come and steal your car and leave mine in its place without asking you?

Therefore Ahmet built his villa on Yiorgos land illegally. Yiorgos owns the land.
Now Yiorgos is nice enough, and he will not sue Ahmet for illegally using his property. Ahmet can take his 'bricks and cement' and whatever he wants with him, but the land belongs to Yiorgos.

Of course Ahmet can buy the land from Yiorgos, but this can be done only if Yiorgos wants to sell it, and Ahmet is willing to pay the asked price.

[Viewpoint]

magikthrill

First of all it depends on the status of Ahmet. Is he a TC refugee (First priority), a nonrefugee 2nd priority) TC or a settler (no priority)?

Ahmet is a TC born and bred.

In the first case Ahmet should be able to choose. He will pay what the cost of the house when Yorgos was forcily removed as well as the current cost of the property.

Ahmet built the villa at a cost of 100.000cyp Yorgo left the land behind in 1974.
Ahmet has been living in the house for 20 years his children have grown up there.

Second case Yiorgos should have the right to return and pay any difference in value. Ahmet must be compensated (Turkey and RoC?). Of course a deal can be reached between Yiorgo and Ahmet if Yiorgo does not care to return to his ancestral home.

So for Yorgo to go back we have to kick Ahmet and his family out, Yorgo has to pay Ahmet the value of the house?????

Third case, settlers are removed. Turkey will have to compensate them. Now Where they go? Yiorgo should care less seeing as they are not Yiorgos co-citizens.

A heartless way of looking at things but, settlers have not exchanged anything so they will be vunerable to eviction if original owner demands return of property, if GC doesnt want property back then settler should buy property and GC should get compensation.???

[magikthrill]

Ahmet built the villa at a cost of 100.000cyp Yorgo left the land behind in 1974.

The options I gave you can be seen as lenient by many GCs. Regardless Yorgo never "left the land behind" has was forcely removed. Did your history tbooks forgot to mention this to you?

[Viewpoint]

Piratis according to your logic;

Ahmet can take his 'bricks and cement' and whatever he wants with him, but the land belongs to Yiorgos.

Ahmet should be kicked out and the house demolished? losing his home & investment.

So Ahmet will be homeless and Yorgos will have a clean plot of land, and thats your idea of solving this very sensative issue.

So Ahmets future should be in the hands of Yorgos?, if Yorgos feels like selling to Ahmet, then Ahmet can sell or exchange (with Yorgo) his property in the south and pay Yorgos.

Shouldnt Ahmet be given first choice seeing he has 20 years of his life invested in that plot of land???

[Piratis]

Shouldnt Ahmet be given first choice seeing he has 20 years of his life invested in that plot of land???

No, Yiorgos will get his land back, Ahmet is going to get his land back. They can both sue Turkey for the losses they had over the last 30 years, like Titina Loizidou did.

I believe the court ordered Turkey to pay close to a million dollars for compensations and give the land back to Titina Loizidou.

[Piratis]

Anyways, in some cases we can be flexible. Nobody wants Ahmet to be homeless, but this should not come to expense of the legal owner of the property. Maybe one solution is if Ahmet sold his land in the south, and bought for yiorgos an equivalent part of land very near Yiorgos land.
This way they could be neighborers

[MicAtCyp]

If Ahmet built a villa for 100.000 on GC land previously Yorgos worth 20.000,

In reality 95% of the Ahmetees grabed a ready made villa belonging to Yorgouses in 1974 worth 100,000 on a land worth 20,000, whereas they left behind a mud brick house worth 3,000 pounds on rural land worth 10,000.

So what Ahmetees have today is a roten 30 year old villa whose original price of 100,000 today dropped to 30,000.

So for the Yorgouses there is a loss of use of 70,000 already, whereas for the Ahmetees there is a loss of use of 3,000 as his mad brick house collapsed a long time ago.

So dear Viewpoint better first deal with the majority of the cases, rather than the exceptions to the rule.

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Anyway, if I were to comment on the example given in the thread, then like I said in previous posts allowing the individuals to sort the matter between themselves is the best way to go even if they end up at court. I am convinced in 95% of the cases the individuals will come to an agreement. For those cases that will end up at court the court has to decide on the following parameters. Original ownership of land, ownership of buildings on the land, and also on actions taken all these years due to force majeure reasons.
It may reach the following decisions:
a)Two separate title deeds on for the land and another for the building plus paying a rent to the owner of land for as long as the building stands there.
b)Force complulsory sale of land to the owner of the building
c)Force complulsory return of both land and building to the owner of land when the one who built on it acted in an opportunist /speculating way rather than for reasons attributed to survival under force majeure conditions.This will be the case with most foreigners.

Most settlers in my opinion belong to the previous example.

Any solution that will dare mess up with peoples properties, without giving them the option to go to court against the VERY current user (not the state) will not be approved by the GCs nor the TCs refugees!
Also any solution that will require the state itself to compensate the people (with thin air or from non existing funds) will not pass either.