Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

Th only thing the GCs and TCs had in common was that they were both resients of the same Island and were Human Beings ....

For everything else they were as different as any other two social goups ....

All perfectly normal and acceptable, and that's not to say they could not coexist (even amicably) living side by side ....


However what has transpired, is the vastly different level of power latent in the smaller group which has unjustly taken away the Human Rights of the majority of the Island.

The only powerful tool we had was the veto and that was to stop you from handing over our island and our lives to Greece......That got in your way and you started your illegal and immoral actions against us. You took away the human rights of an entire people.

[repulsewarrior]

I must be missing something... If you are from England you are English, if you are from Ireland you are Irish, if you are from Greece you are Greek, if you are from Cyprus you are Cypriot. I may be uneducated in this but it makes no sense to me why people from Cyprus are not just Cypriot. You are not Greek!!! You speak the language but that is meaningless.

I know there will be a barrage of historical facts and immigrants that refuse to name themselves by the country they were born but my comment is from an unbiased, non political perspective. Can't you be proud to be Cypriot? I just don't get it!!

...bravo!!!

[repulsewarrior]

Pumpy, I am half Greek Cypriot and half mainland Greek. Speaking from that experience I can tell you with some authority that being Cypriot is being Greek plus. In effect we are more Greek than the mainlanders not less. We have retained traditions and language sctructures that they purged or forgot. Oddly enough the same goes for TCs, they are more Turkish than the mainlanders. It is no accident that both mainland cultures often poke fun at ours, maybe they cannot stand the reminder of how they used to be.

...i like this post too.

[repulsewarrior]

...we can be "Greeks" or "Turks" and there is no shame in that, but to make Cyprus anything else but an island that we all love is a betrayal of the heritance that was left to us by the people who struggled under subjugation, respectfully, with humility and grace, who survived as a culture for thousands of years, and that has a distinction which deserves to be recognised for its worth, the cradle of the Occidental world, and a crossroad for every world religion.

If we place our "Greekness" or our "Turkishness" before our Humanity, we fail ourselves and Mankind.

[humanist]

Simon

How many times has this forum debated this? As if it is important in the face of 40,000 TURKISH troops and over a hundred thousand TURKISH settlers on our island.

In reality, each individual will have his own opinion. I am an ethnic Greek of Cypriot nationality. That is how I am recognised in the Republic of Cyprus' constitution. My religion is GREEK Orthodox, my language is GREEK, my ancestors fought in the GREEK Independence movement and fought the Italians in Epirus, I listen to GREEK music, watch GREEK television and celebrate OXI day like the majority of Cypriots. Indeed, I do everything that a Greek man from Rhodes or Crete does. So who gives you the right to deny me my self-identity, that is given to me in my nation's constitution? Nobody!

It has nothing to do with genes. If genetics were everything, then what does English mean? Or American? French? All these peoples have mixed genetics.

Cyprus has always been a predominately Greek island, with several minority groups. That is how it is today.

Thats great Simon.

I was born in Cyprus, I live elsewhere, I speak English, I eat a vast variety of foods, I wnjoy listenning to all sorts of music including Greek and Turkish, I never hardly ever watch Greek tv or any other TV I read self development books, I would like to return to a Cyprus that has no military and live in a peaceful existence in my bi communal village (now under occupation by the Turkish army n hostaged by the Turkish speaking community). I have visited Greece many time and I hae less in common with that country than the Turkish Cypriot family I visited three months ago in the occupied area.

As far as am concerned the majority of Cypriots speak Greek and although they get on the mighty horse that they are Greek orthodox it appears to me as soon as church is over it's one man killing another for a few shilings.

[repulsewarrior]

Simon

How many times has this forum debated this? As if it is important in the face of 40,000 TURKISH troops and over a hundred thousand TURKISH settlers on our island.

In reality, each individual will have his own opinion. I am an ethnic Greek of Cypriot nationality. That is how I am recognised in the Republic of Cyprus' constitution. My religion is GREEK Orthodox, my language is GREEK, my ancestors fought in the GREEK Independence movement and fought the Italians in Epirus, I listen to GREEK music, watch GREEK television and celebrate OXI day like the majority of Cypriots. Indeed, I do everything that a Greek man from Rhodes or Crete does. So who gives you the right to deny me my self-identity, that is given to me in my nation's constitution? Nobody!

It has nothing to do with genes. If genetics were everything, then what does English mean? Or American? French? All these peoples have mixed genetics.

Cyprus has always been a predominately Greek island, with several minority groups. That is how it is today.

Thats great Simon.

I was born in Cyprus, I live elsewhere, I speak English, I eat a vast variety of foods, I wnjoy listenning to all sorts of music including Greek and Turkish, I never hardly ever watch Greek tv or any other TV I read self development books, I would like to return to a Cyprus that has no military and live in a peaceful existence in my bi communal village (now under occupation by the Turkish army n hostaged by the Turkish speaking community). I have visited Greece many time and I hae less in common with that country than the Turkish Cypriot family I visited three months ago in the occupied area.

As far as am concerned the majority of Cypriots speak Greek and although they get on the mighty horse that they are Greek orthodox it appears to me as soon as church is over it's one man killing another for a few shilings.

...thank you

[Nikitas]

"At no time was Cyprus owned by Greece "

And at no time before 1923 was Asia Minor owned by Turkey. This ownerships angle projected by the Grey Wolves is total crap.

The Byzantine Empire was a Greek empire, it "owned" Cyprus for 1000 years. A lot longer than the Ottoman Empire. So let us put this crap to rest.

[Nikitas]

I cannot recall with precision which author it was, it might be Woodhouse, who said that you cannot understand modern Greece and the Greeks without reference to the Byzantine era.

It seems like Zan and his ilk would love to erase this era. It cannot be done. It was during Byzantine times that modern Greek culture, religion, language and customs we have today were formed. It was an era that lasted from the fall of the Romans to the arrival of the Ottomans. It probably was the longest uninterrupted historic period enjoyed by any empire except for the Chinese.

It was also the time that the geographic extent of the Greek nation was defined and it included Cyprus. To talk about Cyprus being owned by Greece is total nonsense. Nations as we know them today did not begin to form until the beginning of the 19th century. Most member nations of the UN did not exist before WWII.

According to the Zan principle of ownership most of these nations have no claim on their territory because they never owned it before their formation. It is a cheap Grey Wolf argument and typical of modern Turkish cynicism. It is a short step from there to the next step which Zan has not dared use in this forum- the "Cyprus is Turkish" slogan.

Regardless of national origin of the citizens, Cyprus is independent. The challenge to this independence does not come from people who regard themselves as Greek or Turkish or other. The challenge comes from the occupation and alteration of part of Cyprus by a foreign power and those that side with the foreign occupier and agree with the continuation of the occupation.

[CopperLine]

I think it a basic mistake and ultimately misleading to speak of people 'owning' a country. Not even old-time sovereigns 'owned' countries. 'Owning' and 'ownership' is a legal reference to property and, as a matter of interest, the word property comes from the Latin word 'privare', to separate or to exclude.

For an ownership claim to be made something like a title deed needs to be shown. 'People' or a 'nation' cannot show a title deed which gives them exclusive rights to privare. This is not how either the modern state, the modern nation of modern law has developed.

Cypriots no more 'own' Cyprus than do British citizens own the UK. Cypriots like Brits are citizens of a state, not owners of it.

[miltiades]

I think it a basic mistake and ultimately misleading to speak of people 'owning' a country. Not even old-time sovereigns 'owned' countries. 'Owning' and 'ownership' is a legal reference to property and, as a matter of interest, the word property comes from the Latin word 'privare', to separate or to exclude.

For an ownership claim to be made something like a title deed needs to be shown. 'People' or a 'nation' cannot show a title deed which gives them exclusive rights to privare. This is not how either the modern state, the modern nation of modern law has developed.

Cypriots no more 'own' Cyprus than do British citizens own the UK. Cypriots like Brits are citizens of a state, not owners of it.

Therefore a true Englishman , born and raised in the UK just as his parents and ancestors were is a mere citizen of the UK just as an illegal immigrant is ! If no group of people own their nation by the mere fact that they are descendants of the natives I wonder why thousands lost their lives during two world wars defending a mere citizenship !! Why dint they let the Germans join them as "citizens " in the UK . With your thinking 1466 would never have happened , and the battle of Waterloo was a total waste Nationals of any nation by nature "own " their nation and are in charge of their nation's destiny. That is what the Cypriots demand.To be in charge of their destiny not dictated to by foreign powers .
Just as a nation owns its own borders so do the nationals of that nation own them too , this is why they are asked to defend their borders because the borders of their country are their "property "