Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Piratis,

As you can see from VP's response above,the root of the problem is lack of trust...Whether you and I like it or not,the majority of TCs think exactly like VP on this matter. They are conditioned that way,as you will see if you follow my other thread "Cyprus problem in 150 questions...."

Bir,

The root of the problem is that foreigners continue to take decisions for our island instead of allowing Cypriots to take them in a democratic way.

VP simply has interests in partitioning the island. He wants gains of land and power on our loss, and he is looking for excuses for this. Please don't tell me that VP and the other partitionists can fool you.

Personally I am not going around saying "Cyprus is Greek", only a tiny minority of GCs does that. Cyprus does not belong to the Greek state, neither we (the great majority of Cypriots) want it to belong there. I am only stating the historical facts when those facts are debated.

The ultimate answer for me is for everyone to embrace both nationalities,learn both languages,both religions,and become much more richer as Cypriots and as human beings.

This is very similar to what I said earlier, and I agree. What we should do is to emphasize what is common (which is a lot) and where there are differences to respect and embrace them, and realize that those differences enrich our island and give to it its unique identity.

I have to disagree with you on one point. I dont believe this or any other President of the ROC ever invited the TCs to return to the original agreement,original Constitution. In fact I remember very well reading that both Papadopoulos and Hristofias has said it is impossible to return to 1960...I stand to be corrected on this...

The reason they say is impossible is not because they do not want it, but because they believe it is unrealistic given the stance of the Turkish side. This was made clear right after the invasion of 1974 and Makarios and the following presidents have accepted (wrongly in my opinion) to negotiate under a different basis.

[zan]

Piratis,

As you can see from VP's response above,the root of the problem is lack of trust...Whether you and I like it or not,the majority of TCs think exactly like VP on this matter. They are conditioned that way,as you will see if you follow my other thread "Cyprus problem in 150 questions...."

Bir,

The root of the problem is that foreigners continue to take decisions for our island instead of allowing Cypriots to take them in a democratic way.

VP simply has interests in partitioning the island. He wants gains of land and power on our loss, and he is looking for excuses for this. Please don't tell me that VP and the other partitionists can fool you.

Personally I am not going around saying "Cyprus is Greek", only a tiny minority of GCs does that. Cyprus does not belong to the Greek state, neither we (the great majority of Cypriots) want it to belong there. I am only stating the historical facts when those facts are debated.

The ultimate answer for me is for everyone to embrace both nationalities,learn both languages,both religions,and become much more richer as Cypriots and as human beings.

This is very similar to what I said earlier, and I agree. What we should do is to emphasize what is common (which is a lot) and where there are differences to respect and embrace them, and realize that those differences enrich our island and give to it its unique identity.

I have to disagree with you on one point. I dont believe this or any other President of the ROC ever invited the TCs to return to the original agreement,original Constitution. In fact I remember very well reading that both Papadopoulos and Hristofias has said it is impossible to return to 1960...I stand to be corrected on this...

The reason they say is impossible is not because they do not want it, but because they believe it is unrealistic given the stance of the Turkish side. This was made clear right after the invasion of 1974 and Makarios and the following presidents have accepted (wrongly in my opinion) to negotiate under a different basis.

I think need to coin a new phrase and call this speech the "Kifeas Line", seeing that you stole it from him


By small group of people....Do you mean the small group of people in power What a crock of crap you talk honestly.



"We can't have an agreement because of your stance" Anything else would not be an agreement but a dictate from one side or he other........Do you even know what you are saying?????

[Nikitas]

Bir,

Returning to the 1960 constitution seems much harder than going on with the new mantra: "bizonal, biregional federation" which no one has defined. Often the idea of the BBF with the triple layer civil service seems like a nightmare when you consider the possibilities for cronyism and nepotism in the appointments that will be made. Perhaps for that reason it is such a favorite with the civil servant class in both communities.

[zan]

Bir,

Returning to the 1960 constitution seems much harder than going on with the new mantra: "bizonal, biregional federation" which no one has defined. Often the idea of the BBF with the triple layer civil service seems like a nightmare when you consider the possibilities for cronyism and nepotism in the appointments that will be made. Perhaps for that reason it is such a favorite with the civil servant class in both communities.

Whether it's two steps forward or three steps back it does not matter....The "RoC" will have to be dissolved, can you see that happening?????

[repulsewarrior]

I don't think that the RoC must dissolve, but its Constitution has to be reformed. Further more, for it to be Bicommunal, Greek Cypriots have to create for themselves a National Assembly which will be a counterpart for the authority which Turcophones already have for themselves today. In this manner we will free the State from the ethnic bias which it has because of the dispropotionate numbers between the ethnicities that dominate its population.

[Viewpoint]

Cyprus is as Hellenic as any other Hellenic territory and island.

If Cypriots want to be part of the Greek state or have their own independent state this should be a decision taken democratically by the Cypriots themselves, not something forced by foreigners.

The American people choose to be independent from the the UK. To be more precise, the majority of the American people choose, because as we all know there was a minority (loyalists) who didn't agree. Similarly many islands and territories in general choose to be part of a bigger state. There is nothing wrong with that either. Otherwise every island and every city should have been independent.

The problem in Cyprus is that foreigners forced on Cypriots their will and they did not allow Cypriots to take their own democratic choices for their own island.

Not everybody can agree. In fact this is impossible. Still decisions should be taken. The way decisions should be taken in the 21st century is by democratic means, and democracy means majority rule, human and minority rights. Unfortunately those foreigners have forced on Cypriots their will as if we are still living in the middle ages where decisions are taken by force instead of democratic means.

That said, the majority of Cypriots today would definitely choose a real independence over any other arrangement. However many Cypriots see that small Cyprus can not be allowed to have a full real independence with a real democracy. This is why some of them would prefer if Cyprus was part of Greece, instead of under the control of the UK and Turkey.

Personally I am 100% in favor of making a compromise to this right of ours in order to sutisfy the minority of TCs and exclude the possibility of union with Greece. However those TCs should get over their hate for everything Greek and accept that this island has a long Hellenic history and stop expecting from us to write off 3500 years of history just to sutisfy their hate for everything Greek. If they hate everything Greek then Cyprus is the wrong island for them and they shouldn't have come here in the first place.

We as individuals had no choice what our forfathers did in the past, we arrived on the scene indigenous to this island so the lame excuse go settle elsewhere is neither here nor there. We TCs do not everything Greek, we respect your history, religion and right to live on this island in peace. Respecting all these does not give you the right to "democratically" sell us out to the Greeks, we have shown that we will fight this everytime and faced with the same end each community woudl do exactly the same unless they are a willing party which now I am sure you have realized we are not.

The dilema you GCs face today is accepting we are equal partners, 2 equal communities, this was reflected in the referendum when both sides had to say yes, if we had of said no like you did then things woudl not have moved forward. So this means we are equals we have just as much wiehgt as the GC community.

Now when it comes to a solution, they key is sharing of political power as 2 equal communites locatd in 2 areas north and south, are you prepared to move forward on the 2 fundamental points Piratis?

Problem is VP that you continue doing against Cyprus the exact same things that your forefathers did. In fact since you set your foot on our island you never stopped committing crimes and using force to stop Cypriots to rule their own island in a democratic way. Every Cypriot generation on this island for the last 4+ centuries has suffered from Turks, and this continues today.

We face no fake dilemmas my friend. We live on this island for 1000s of years and we have passed way worst situations than today. You on this island are a minority. You can live as equal Cypriots and equal EU citizens, with your minority rights respected, or you can continue the war against us in your effort to steal from us the north part of our country and have other unfair and undemocratic gains on our loss.
If your choice is war, then be sure we will fight this war until the end. What you won in 1974 was just the first battle. You are not a winners by any means, and if you have any doubts about this you should look yourselves in the mirror to wake up.

You can be certain of one thing Piratis we will be waiting if you can fight some more if you wish but you still havent gotten over the last bout of beating you took. We are part owners of this island and the fact that you got greedy has been your downfall, you pay the price for your mistakes by losing land and I pay by non recognition, the only thing is you are still greedy and want the whole island whereas I am willing to share equally as 2 equal communities.

[growuptcs]

Excuse me for calling you an idiot when you call Pirates greedy for wanting the whole island where all he wants back is HIS land. Stop twisting the facts guy.

[zan]

Excuse me for calling you an idiot when you call Pirates greedy for wanting the whole island where all he wants back is HIS land. Stop twisting the facts guy.

We all know what Piratis wants...The same thing that Tpap wants...A Greek Cyprus.....

[repulsewarrior]

viewpoint, Dr.B deserves respect because he is a Human being. The fact that he is Turcophone has nothibg to do with it. A lesson you can learn from him is to place your own Nationalism somewhere below the compassion you can offer others as a person. Ignoring someone because they are "Greek" is just plain ignorant. Generalising that all "Greeks" are the same is no better. When a "Greek" treats you with the same intolerance you should reflect on how much harm is produced by the blame game that always follows such behaviour.

You will not have your partition, and the "Greeks" (who are not at all unlike yourself) will not annihlate your "race". I suggest you, like myself search for something better.

repulse where did I say I hate anyone.

The point I was trying to make was the vast difference between the posts of Bir and Kikapu, Birs shows the classic signs of a concerned TC where as Kikapu's posts are full of hate and venom towards TC, Turks and the TRNC, our safe haven for 34 years.

...where did I say that you hate anyone.

You can be certain of one thing Piratis we will be waiting if you can fight some more if you wish but you still havent gotten over the last bout of beating you took. We are part owners of this island and the fact that you got greedy has been your downfall, you pay the price for your mistakes by losing land and I pay by non recognition, the only thing is you are still greedy and want the whole island whereas I am willing to share equally as 2 equal communities.

...if this were really true, you would fight as adamantly as I do: for Cyprus, rather than "Turkish Cypriots" or "Greek Cypriots" (or "Greeks" or "Turks")...like Dr.B. and unlike Kikapu.

[Viewpoint]

viewpoint, Dr.B deserves respect because he is a Human being. The fact that he is Turcophone has nothibg to do with it. A lesson you can learn from him is to place your own Nationalism somewhere below the compassion you can offer others as a person. Ignoring someone because they are "Greek" is just plain ignorant. Generalising that all "Greeks" are the same is no better. When a "Greek" treats you with the same intolerance you should reflect on how much harm is produced by the blame game that always follows such behaviour.

You will not have your partition, and the "Greeks" (who are not at all unlike yourself) will not annihlate your "race". I suggest you, like myself search for something better.

repulse where did I say I hate anyone.

The point I was trying to make was the vast difference between the posts of Bir and Kikapu, Birs shows the classic signs of a concerned TC where as Kikapu's posts are full of hate and venom towards TC, Turks and the TRNC, our safe haven for 34 years.

...where did I say that you hate anyone.

You can be certain of one thing Piratis we will be waiting if you can fight some more if you wish but you still havent gotten over the last bout of beating you took. We are part owners of this island and the fact that you got greedy has been your downfall, you pay the price for your mistakes by losing land and I pay by non recognition, the only thing is you are still greedy and want the whole island whereas I am willing to share equally as 2 equal communities.

...if this were really true, you would fight as adamantly as I do: for Cyprus, rather than "Turkish Cypriots" or "Greek Cypriots" (or "Greeks" or "Turks")...like Dr.B. and unlike Kikapu.

repulse your Cyprus is not mine and mine is not yours thats the problem. There is absolutey no trust and no sign of any being built up. The best we can hope for is more of the same with a little relaxation of the isolation on the north and if piratis or anyone else wants to attack us we will not just sit back and surrender we will fight back like we did in 1974 with everything we have, we will defend ourselves but we will never be the one to instigate the trouble we will leave that to the GCs.