Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

Kifeas expresses it very well in his post above. It is unimaginable for most Cypriots that Greece would ever be allowed to swallow Cyprus and no Cypriot wants Cyprus to become another district of Greece. The limit was reached in 1974 and Cypriots reacted to the attempt to take them over.

That is why I am perplexed with the tolerance shown by TCs to the mainland domination. At what point do you say "enough" and assert yourselves? This is what is missing all these years.

[zan]

Kifeas expresses it very well in his post above. It is unimaginable for most Cypriots that Greece would ever be allowed to swallow Cyprus and no Cypriot wants Cyprus to become another district of Greece. The limit was reached in 1974 and Cypriots reacted to the attempt to take them over.

That is why I am perplexed with the tolerance shown by TCs to the mainland domination. At what point do you say "enough" and assert yourselves? This is what is missing all these years.

Greece wants the oil in the waters between it and Turkey and so does Turkey.......Whose side are you on?......Who will you benefit most from? Where does your instinct tell you to go?


There are debates in Australia every year about splitting from Britain. Scotland wants to split and so does Wales. Even Cornwall wants to have its own government.They even have their own flag.

[boomerang]

Kifeas expresses it very well in his post above. It is unimaginable for most Cypriots that Greece would ever be allowed to swallow Cyprus and no Cypriot wants Cyprus to become another district of Greece. The limit was reached in 1974 and Cypriots reacted to the attempt to take them over.

That is why I am perplexed with the tolerance shown by TCs to the mainland domination. At what point do you say "enough" and assert yourselves? This is what is missing all these years.

Greece wants the oil in the waters between it and Turkey and so does Turkey.......Whose side are you on?......Who will you benefit most from? Where does your instinct tell you to go?


There are debates in Australia every year about splitting from Britain. Scotland wants to split and so does Wales. Even Cornwall wants to have its own government.They even have their own flag.

The argument regarding Australia and the rest of the UK countries does not apply here...Australia is not run by the UK nor we have representation in the UK...

A lot has changed since the oust of Whitlam...

What we want is system that reflects realities on the ground...And this I am afraid has nothing to do a UK split...We are already split...


Actually quite recently with a change of government the old debate came back...
As far as the oil in the Aegean, there are rules and regulations as to where theborders start and finish...Let the internation courts decide...

As far as the RoC benefitting, I hate to tell you only the motherlands will benefit, and we will get jack shit out of something like that...nothing new here...

[repulsewarrior]

...however, there is such a thing as margins of scale; think in the long run, and in terms of living, after all, Cyprus is an island. maybe we are better off having English our Official Language, having Greek and Turkish as the 'primary' languages that this State can provide, allowing in the future for it's fluency in other languges as well. we are better off without adversarial regimes as they exist today, who occupy our thoughts with fear, and who usurp our Basic Human Rights by serving interlocutory appeals rather than the interest of the island. This is the big difference I see with Makarios and Denktash, as leaders, and what followed; I am convinced in the two hundred years to follow, they will be revered as heros, by all Cypriots, whatever ethnicity, because in the end, their acts were for this island and its dwellers, not the Nationalism which drove them to be divided like counterweights on a scale. but both kept their eye on the single fulcrum and they were in the end united to be in its service, commited to a single cause.

It was TPap who said, as a young man, that it was impossible to imagine the island of Cyprus without a Turkish Cypriot population, that they were scattered over the whole island like grains of sand scattered over a map. Nothing more beautiful, or poetic, can be said to deduce the truth. The island requires its repopulation. Justice requires that we start with a fact like this.

i say some bad things happened, i say we got engineered, so that the sand gets blown away and the map gets torn.

I say fuck the sand, scatter jewels, build on the value it will provide to both Societies, they (the"Greeks" and the "Turks") will provide for themselves first, of course, but they will be providing toward a population that is mobile and who's demographic can be expected to change dramatically over time. Although mutually exclusive, neither can ignore the other, neither can act in a manner having malice, and both are subjct to a Sovereign State, being, a reformed, Republic of Cyprus.

nothing is wrong for there to exist, a Cyprus which is "Greek", or a Cyprus which is "Turkish", but for these choices to exist all Cypriots must have an identity as one, equal in their love, and equal in their commitment toward defending its Sovereignty, as an island, and as the island's dwellers, self sustaining their respect, as Turkish Cypriots and as Greek Cypriots, together, and as Cypriots, mutually; three governments, bi-communal, for their Rights as Individuals, as well as their Rights as Persons.

[BirKibrisli]

Isn't it sad that the British managed to become Americans in 500 years,but we could not become Cypriots in 10,000 years???

Isn't it sad that the British managed to become Australians in just over 200 years,but we are still Greeks and Turks,after 3500 and 500 years???

Isn't it sad that people who live in Isreal are Israelis, in Egypt Egyptians,
in Kazakistan Kazaks,in Greece Greeks,in Turkey Turks,but people who live in Cyprus insist on identifying themselves as leftovers of two other nations????

Isn't it sad that we are probably the only nation on earth who keep denying our own unique national identity????

Isn't it just too bloody sad???????

Congratulations Bir, best post in a long long while. Don't you think the GCs are the biggest offenders of this crime? Just watch a football game or any event that would draw the mass crowds and see the number of Greek and Cypriot flags.

TCs are by no means innocent but the GCs are definitely the more guilty party.

Hello,MR...Good to hear from you. I think it is very sad that some people insist on seeing Cyprus as "a Greek island"...I give up,mate...

To the best of my understanding, when Greek Cypriots refer to themselves as Greeks, the majority of them basically identify themselves with the broader and rather historical Greek or Hellenic cultural identity, and not so much with Greece as a political and legal “nation-state” entity! We feel that our (Greek) Cypriot cultural identity is just one such component of this broader historical Greek cultural identity, and definitely not something separate or outside of it! What it definitely does not mean or imply is that we are willing to tolerate or have ever allowed any internal involvement, or follow directives from any mainland Greek governments, more so when our own interests are in conflict! This is something that has been proved in numerous occasions over the last decades, not to say that Greece –at least since 1974, has shown any interest in getting involved in our internal affairs, or has ever attempted to “shepherd” us internationally! Instead, and as a matter of fact, there were many cases to the opposite direction, especially after 1974! With the exception of the 1959 London-Zurich agreements and the 1974 coup -in which violent means by a non-democratic junta government were attempted and utilized in order to impose “Greece’s” will on us, there is hardly any other example to be mentioned against the above!

In view of the above, I believe TCs should not feel so threatened by the fact that Greek Cypriots emphasize the Greek part of their identity, because the vast majority of GCs are not willing to sacrifice or put in a second tier or fate their political independence, in the name of Greece as a separate nation-state! There are many countries nowadays that are composed by multiple cultural identities which are all expressed in the everyday life of these countries, yet, these countries do exist and function as entities without major problems! Australia and the US are such prime examples, especially the later! Great Britain is another one such example, with English, Welsh, Irish and Scots forming one nation state, yet they maintain their separate cultural and ethnic identities!

Going back to the example of Australia, I would like to remind Birkibrisli that they (Australians) still maintain the queen of England as the head of their nation-state, and they even have the British flag as an inlaid of the Aus flag! At least in our case, allegiance with Greece is more a private thing, and is not institutionalized in any way or form, unlike Australia. Furthermore, I am sure if England and France reach the final of the world cup; the vast majority of Australians of Anglo-Saxon origin will seat in front of their TV sets and will support France to win the cup, many of them with French flags as well! Have I got it right?

Hello,dear Kifeas...I have no problem with most of what you are saying.
The trouble is when someone says "Cyprus is a Greek island" that is very exclusive. It excludes all the TCs,Armenians,Maronites,the British and what have you...It makes us feel like strangers in our own country,not welcomed but barely tolerated. And it invites the inevitable retort "No,Cyprus is,at least partly,Turkish..." And "We don't want to live on a Greek island,we want our own Turkish part in Cyprus..." I am sure you see where I am getting at...I have been saying from the beginning that we must put our Cypriotness before our ethnic origins if we are to reunite our beloved country and become one nation, one people...Saying "
Cyprus is a Greek island" makes mockery of the sentiments of those who think like I do...

ps.You will NEVER hear an Australian say "Australia is a British island"...
And the days of the Queen of England as Ausralian head of state is coming to an end in the near future,I am sure...

[BirKibrisli]

Isn't it sad that the British managed to become Americans in 500 years,but we could not become Cypriots in 10,000 years???

Isn't it sad that the British managed to become Australians in just over 200 years,but we are still Greeks and Turks,after 3500 and 500 years???

Isn't it sad that people who live in Isreal are Israelis, in Egypt Egyptians,
in Kazakistan Kazaks,in Greece Greeks,in Turkey Turks,but people who live in Cyprus insist on identifying themselves as leftovers of two other nations????

Isn't it sad that we are probably the only nation on earth who keep denying our own unique national identity????

Isn't it just too bloody sad???????

Congratulations Bir, best post in a long long while. Don't you think the GCs are the biggest offenders of this crime? Just watch a football game or any event that would draw the mass crowds and see the number of Greek and Cypriot flags.

TCs are by no means innocent but the GCs are definitely the more guilty party.

Hello,MR...Good to hear from you. I think it is very sad that some people insist on seeing Cyprus as "a Greek island"...I give up,mate...

Well at least Bir we saw the light years ago and saw the goodness in our Cypriotness , ditched away our chains and as free men we tell the world that WE ARE CYPRIOTS first and foremost my dear brother , same sentiments to my dear friend MR-from-NG .

Of course,my dear compatriot...We are Cypriots and proudly so...And we will heal the wounds of our beloved Cyprus when more and more people think like we do...All other roads lead to ruins...

[T_C]

"The trouble is, "Greek" Cypriots aren't Greek"

Nooooooo, no, no, no...the trouble is Greek Cypriots ARE Greek!!!

[Kifeas]

Isn't it sad that the British managed to become Americans in 500 years,but we could not become Cypriots in 10,000 years???

Isn't it sad that the British managed to become Australians in just over 200 years,but we are still Greeks and Turks,after 3500 and 500 years???

Isn't it sad that people who live in Isreal are Israelis, in Egypt Egyptians,
in Kazakistan Kazaks,in Greece Greeks,in Turkey Turks,but people who live in Cyprus insist on identifying themselves as leftovers of two other nations????

Isn't it sad that we are probably the only nation on earth who keep denying our own unique national identity????

Isn't it just too bloody sad???????

Congratulations Bir, best post in a long long while. Don't you think the GCs are the biggest offenders of this crime? Just watch a football game or any event that would draw the mass crowds and see the number of Greek and Cypriot flags.

TCs are by no means innocent but the GCs are definitely the more guilty party.

Hello,MR...Good to hear from you. I think it is very sad that some people insist on seeing Cyprus as "a Greek island"...I give up,mate...

To the best of my understanding, when Greek Cypriots refer to themselves as Greeks, the majority of them basically identify themselves with the broader and rather historical Greek or Hellenic cultural identity, and not so much with Greece as a political and legal “nation-state” entity! We feel that our (Greek) Cypriot cultural identity is just one such component of this broader historical Greek cultural identity, and definitely not something separate or outside of it! What it definitely does not mean or imply is that we are willing to tolerate or have ever allowed any internal involvement, or follow directives from any mainland Greek governments, more so when our own interests are in conflict! This is something that has been proved in numerous occasions over the last decades, not to say that Greece –at least since 1974, has shown any interest in getting involved in our internal affairs, or has ever attempted to “shepherd” us internationally! Instead, and as a matter of fact, there were many cases to the opposite direction, especially after 1974! With the exception of the 1959 London-Zurich agreements and the 1974 coup -in which violent means by a non-democratic junta government were attempted and utilized in order to impose “Greece’s” will on us, there is hardly any other example to be mentioned against the above!

In view of the above, I believe TCs should not feel so threatened by the fact that Greek Cypriots emphasize the Greek part of their identity, because the vast majority of GCs are not willing to sacrifice or put in a second tier or fate their political independence, in the name of Greece as a separate nation-state! There are many countries nowadays that are composed by multiple cultural identities which are all expressed in the everyday life of these countries, yet, these countries do exist and function as entities without major problems! Australia and the US are such prime examples, especially the later! Great Britain is another one such example, with English, Welsh, Irish and Scots forming one nation state, yet they maintain their separate cultural and ethnic identities!

Going back to the example of Australia, I would like to remind Birkibrisli that they (Australians) still maintain the queen of England as the head of their nation-state, and they even have the British flag as an inlaid of the Aus flag! At least in our case, allegiance with Greece is more a private thing, and is not institutionalized in any way or form, unlike Australia. Furthermore, I am sure if England and France reach the final of the world cup; the vast majority of Australians of Anglo-Saxon origin will seat in front of their TV sets and will support France to win the cup, many of them with French flags as well! Have I got it right?

Hello,dear Kifeas...I have no problem with most of what you are saying.
The trouble is when someone says "Cyprus is a Greek island" that is very exclusive. It excludes all the TCs,Armenians,Maronites,the British and what have you...It makes us feel like strangers in our own country,not welcomed but barely tolerated. And it invites the inevitable retort "No,Cyprus is,at least partly,Turkish..." And "We don't want to live on a Greek island,we want our own Turkish part in Cyprus..." I am sure you see where I am getting at...I have been saying from the beginning that we must put our Cypriotness before our ethnic origins if we are to reunite our beloved country and become one nation, one people...Saying "
Cyprus is a Greek island" makes mockery of the sentiments of those who think like I do...

ps.You will NEVER hear an Australian say "Australia is a British island"...
And the days of the Queen of England as Ausralian head of state is coming to an end in the near future,I am sure...

Dear Bir, I understand what you are saying! I personally do not agree with the use of such a slogan, as I find it non-useful and purely counterproductive! However, to the best of my knowledge and understanding, the proportion of GCs making use of the slogan “Cyprus is Greek,” but more importantly the proportion of those seriously subscribing to its literal meaning -as it may sound to you and the rest of the TCs; is fairly small! More so when it comes to political parties and their official positions! The majority of those making use of this slogan, use it for its figurative meaning, i.e. that Cyprus’s cultural and historical heritage is associated more with the Greek and Christian cultural world and civilization, than with any of the other ones that have existed or exist in the region!

I do not think TCs should seriously worry for the fact that such a slogan is occasionally being heard from the mouth of some, mainly rightwing youth groups! What one should examine is what are the official political positions and aims of the major and significant political parties influencing the vast majority of the GC public (including even those out of which such slogan heralding youth groups affiliate with;) than with what some empty head youngsters will shout, especially in a pre-election period!

[zan]

Isn't it sad that the British managed to become Americans in 500 years,but we could not become Cypriots in 10,000 years???

Isn't it sad that the British managed to become Australians in just over 200 years,but we are still Greeks and Turks,after 3500 and 500 years???

Isn't it sad that people who live in Isreal are Israelis, in Egypt Egyptians,
in Kazakistan Kazaks,in Greece Greeks,in Turkey Turks,but people who live in Cyprus insist on identifying themselves as leftovers of two other nations????

Isn't it sad that we are probably the only nation on earth who keep denying our own unique national identity????

Isn't it just too bloody sad???????

Congratulations Bir, best post in a long long while. Don't you think the GCs are the biggest offenders of this crime? Just watch a football game or any event that would draw the mass crowds and see the number of Greek and Cypriot flags.

TCs are by no means innocent but the GCs are definitely the more guilty party.

Hello,MR...Good to hear from you. I think it is very sad that some people insist on seeing Cyprus as "a Greek island"...I give up,mate...

To the best of my understanding, when Greek Cypriots refer to themselves as Greeks, the majority of them basically identify themselves with the broader and rather historical Greek or Hellenic cultural identity, and not so much with Greece as a political and legal “nation-state” entity! We feel that our (Greek) Cypriot cultural identity is just one such component of this broader historical Greek cultural identity, and definitely not something separate or outside of it! What it definitely does not mean or imply is that we are willing to tolerate or have ever allowed any internal involvement, or follow directives from any mainland Greek governments, more so when our own interests are in conflict! This is something that has been proved in numerous occasions over the last decades, not to say that Greece –at least since 1974, has shown any interest in getting involved in our internal affairs, or has ever attempted to “shepherd” us internationally! Instead, and as a matter of fact, there were many cases to the opposite direction, especially after 1974! With the exception of the 1959 London-Zurich agreements and the 1974 coup -in which violent means by a non-democratic junta government were attempted and utilized in order to impose “Greece’s” will on us, there is hardly any other example to be mentioned against the above!

In view of the above, I believe TCs should not feel so threatened by the fact that Greek Cypriots emphasize the Greek part of their identity, because the vast majority of GCs are not willing to sacrifice or put in a second tier or fate their political independence, in the name of Greece as a separate nation-state! There are many countries nowadays that are composed by multiple cultural identities which are all expressed in the everyday life of these countries, yet, these countries do exist and function as entities without major problems! Australia and the US are such prime examples, especially the later! Great Britain is another one such example, with English, Welsh, Irish and Scots forming one nation state, yet they maintain their separate cultural and ethnic identities!

Going back to the example of Australia, I would like to remind Birkibrisli that they (Australians) still maintain the queen of England as the head of their nation-state, and they even have the British flag as an inlaid of the Aus flag! At least in our case, allegiance with Greece is more a private thing, and is not institutionalized in any way or form, unlike Australia. Furthermore, I am sure if England and France reach the final of the world cup; the vast majority of Australians of Anglo-Saxon origin will seat in front of their TV sets and will support France to win the cup, many of them with French flags as well! Have I got it right?

Hello,dear Kifeas...I have no problem with most of what you are saying.
The trouble is when someone says "Cyprus is a Greek island" that is very exclusive. It excludes all the TCs,Armenians,Maronites,the British and what have you...It makes us feel like strangers in our own country,not welcomed but barely tolerated. And it invites the inevitable retort "No,Cyprus is,at least partly,Turkish..." And "We don't want to live on a Greek island,we want our own Turkish part in Cyprus..." I am sure you see where I am getting at...I have been saying from the beginning that we must put our Cypriotness before our ethnic origins if we are to reunite our beloved country and become one nation, one people...Saying "
Cyprus is a Greek island" makes mockery of the sentiments of those who think like I do...

ps.You will NEVER hear an Australian say "Australia is a British island"...
And the days of the Queen of England as Ausralian head of state is coming to an end in the near future,I am sure...

Dear Bir, I understand what you are saying! I personally do not agree with the use of such a slogan, as I find it non-useful and purely counterproductive! However, to the best of my knowledge and understanding, the proportion of GCs making use of the slogan “Cyprus is Greek,” but more importantly the proportion of those seriously subscribing to its literal meaning -as it may sound to you and the rest of the TCs; is fairly small! More so when it comes to political parties and their official positions! The majority of those making use of this slogan, use it for its figurative meaning, i.e. that Cyprus’s cultural and historical heritage is associated more with the Greek and Christian cultural world and civilization, than with any of the other ones that have existed or exist in the region!

I do not think TCs should seriously worry for the fact that such a slogan is occasionally being heard from the mouth of some, mainly rightwing youth groups! What one should examine is what are the official political positions and aims of the major and significant political parties influencing the vast majority of the GC public (including even those out of which such slogan heralding youth groups affiliate with;) than with what some empty head youngsters will shout, especially in a pre-election period!

Born out by the Greek flags all over the island and the Greek national anthem and Greek only representation by a government that says it represents all Cypriots.....Boy these "FEW" have a loud voice in the "RoC".....

[Piratis]

Cyprus is as Hellenic as any other Hellenic territory and island.

If Cypriots want to be part of the Greek state or have their own independent state this should be a decision taken democratically by the Cypriots themselves, not something forced by foreigners.

The American people choose to be independent from the the UK. To be more precise, the majority of the American people choose, because as we all know there was a minority (loyalists) who didn't agree. Similarly many islands and territories in general choose to be part of a bigger state. There is nothing wrong with that either. Otherwise every island and every city should have been independent.

The problem in Cyprus is that foreigners forced on Cypriots their will and they did not allow Cypriots to take their own democratic choices for their own island.

Not everybody can agree. In fact this is impossible. Still decisions should be taken. The way decisions should be taken in the 21st century is by democratic means, and democracy means majority rule, human and minority rights. Unfortunately those foreigners have forced on Cypriots their will as if we are still living in the middle ages where decisions are taken by force instead of democratic means.

That said, the majority of Cypriots today would definitely choose a real independence over any other arrangement. However many Cypriots see that small Cyprus can not be allowed to have a full real independence with a real democracy. This is why some of them would prefer if Cyprus was part of Greece, instead of under the control of the UK and Turkey.

Personally I am 100% in favor of making a compromise to this right of ours in order to sutisfy the minority of TCs and exclude the possibility of union with Greece. However those TCs should get over their hate for everything Greek and accept that this island has a long Hellenic history and stop expecting from us to write off 3500 years of history just to sutisfy their hate for everything Greek. If they hate everything Greek then Cyprus is the wrong island for them and they shouldn't have come here in the first place.