Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Piratis takes a tumble.

CopperLine, the UN Charter deals with the relationship between countries. The pseudo state is not a country.

Ergo, the UN charter does not apply to TRNC. Ergo the TRNC can't be in violation of the charter. Ergo, the TRNC which doesn't exist cannot be in violation of a treaty which doesn't apply.

That's a really interesting argument you've just made there Piratis.

The UN charter applies in Cyprus, and Turkey is in violation of it since it is illegally occupying 1/3rd of Republic of Cyprus. Turkey is the one responsible for the occupation and all the other crimes and illegalities that happen in the northern part of Cyprus, such as the illegal declaration of the so called "trnc".

[zan]

Piratis takes a tumble.

CopperLine, the UN Charter deals with the relationship between countries. The pseudo state is not a country.

Ergo, the UN charter does not apply to TRNC. Ergo the TRNC can't be in violation of the charter. Ergo, the TRNC which doesn't exist cannot be in violation of a treaty which doesn't apply.

That's a really interesting argument you've just made there Piratis.

The UN charter applies in Cyprus, and Turkey is in violation of it since it is illegally occupying 1/3rd of Republic of Cyprus. Turkey is the one responsible for the occupation and all the other crimes and illegalities that happen in the northern part of Cyprus, such as the illegal declaration of the so called "trnc".

It is like banging your head against a brick wall I agree Copperline but as I said to you before...It is designed that way


The words "Suspended in the TRNC" mean anything to you Piratis.....Hmmmm

[Piratis]

I'm seriously bored by this now.

I am also bored copperline. Republic of Cyprus declares which are the legal ports in Cyprus - period. Other countries except Turkey respect the laws and the sovereignty of Cyprus. If you think you will find other partners in crime to violate the laws of Cyprus on the premise that their crime will go unpunished then good luck to you. I assure you that not many companies will take that kind of risk because RoC is much more capable than you think it is.

[Piratis]

he words "Suspended in the TRNC" mean anything to you Piratis

No they don't. Maybe you mean "Suspended in the areas under the illegal Turkish occupation"? Because as I said, the only thing that exists in north Cyprus is an illegal Turkish occupation.

[Get Real!]

To Whom It May Concern:

According to the UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION ON THE LAW OF THE SEA taken from…

http://www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_ ... osindx.htm

Article11

Ports

For the purpose of delimiting the territorial sea, the outermost permanent harbour works which form an integral part of the harbour system are regarded as forming part of the coast. Off-shore installations and artificial islands shall not be considered as permanent harbour works.

Article25

Rights of protection of the coastal State

1. The coastal State may take the necessary steps in its territorial sea to prevent passage which is not innocent.
2. In the case of ships proceeding to internal waters or a call at a port facility outside internal waters, the coastal State also has the right to take the necessary steps to prevent any breach of the conditions to which admission of those ships to internal waters or such a call is subject.
3. The coastal State may, without discrimination in form or in fact among foreign ships, suspend temporarily in specified areas of its territorial sea the innocent passage of foreign ships if such suspension is essential for the protection of its security, including weapons exercises. Such suspension shall take effect only after having been duly published.

There’s plenty more in this document so anyone interested feel free to study it.

Regards, GR.

[zan]

To Whom It May Concern:

According to the UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION ON THE LAW OF THE SEA taken from…

http://www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_ ... osindx.htm

Article11

Ports

For the purpose of delimiting the territorial sea, the outermost permanent harbour works which form an integral part of the harbour system are regarded as forming part of the coast. Off-shore installations and artificial islands shall not be considered as permanent harbour works.

Article25

Rights of protection of the coastal State

1. The coastal State may take the necessary steps in its territorial sea to prevent passage which is not innocent.
2. In the case of ships proceeding to internal waters or a call at a port facility outside internal waters, the coastal State also has the right to take the necessary steps to prevent any breach of the conditions to which admission of those ships to internal waters or such a call is subject.
3. The coastal State may, without discrimination in form or in fact among foreign ships, suspend temporarily in specified areas of its territorial sea the innocent passage of foreign ships if such suspension is essential for the protection of its security, including weapons exercises. Such suspension shall take effect only after having been duly published.

There’s plenty more in this document so anyone interested feel free to study it.

Regards, GR.

If you don't accept, and I tink you do really, what Copperline is telling you, then you WILL accept what the EU is telling you........Now let me see....GR says...EU says..........Hard decisions.....

[CopperLine]

My goodness Get Real you have been busy burning those Google keys confirming the adage that 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing'.

So now you've given up on IMO - good, we're making progress - and now you've gone back to UNCLOS - well it was good whilst it lasted. Shaking off my boredom, Article 11 is explained in the first sub-clause 'For the purposes of delimiting territorial sea .... ' So nothing about granting or withholding access to ports. Article 25 give the game away right there in its' title 'rights of protection of the coastal state' i.e, it is an article about 'protection' and about 'coastal states'. It is also about innocent passage and 'innocent' in international law is a used as a contrast to 'bellicose' or warlike. The Mersin to Famagusta ferry is under the international maritime law an 'innocent' vessel seeking 'innocent passage.' So this part of the Article is not relevant to our case. Article 25:2 is a re-statement of the already established fact - that I've repeated over and over again - that it is the national authority (NOT an international authority) which is to determine admission to and punishment of violations of entry to national ports. And Article 25:3 elaborates on this national authority.

So again, your example of international law - yes UNCLOS is international law - simply re-states what we've known all along and which I have been arguing all along that access to ports is a national not an international legal matter.

As you said Get Real, there’s plenty more in this document so anyone interested feel free to study it ... but please don't make it up.

[Get Real!]

CopperLine,

Do you even know what you're arguing about any more? You actually started out by doubting the closed status of the ports in the occupied territories with this sweeping statement…

“Yet again the debate about whether the use of north Cyprus ports are legal/illegal is entirely derivative of the issue of whether TRNC is legal/illegal.”

…and I have since bombarded you with plenty of links that have closed you off from all directions including the devastating…

http://www.un.int/cyprus/scr541.htm

So where does that leave your Sacco and Vanzetti theories in support of criminal Turkey?

It’s not looking good CopperLine…

[CopperLine]

Get Real

Whatever

[Get Real!]

Get Real

Whatever

Case closed then!

GR victim case #2738

Please remember this case number if you ever want to refer back to it!