Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Observer,

What exactly is your motive? Are you trying to find a loophole to justify and promote the illegally occupied port?

Isn’t a UN resolution condemning this ENTIRE “TRNC” debacle enough for you to realize what the international community thinks and wants?

If the very existence of the “TRNC” is ILLEGAL, in accordance with the world’s highest authority the UN, then how can it be possible that anything the “TRNC” does will be legal?

If and when you are willing & able to confront common sense on this matter your queries will be gone.

Regards, GR.

Hi GR,
I hope you dont mind me asking a simple question. It might help me understand your logic/common sense on this 'generalisation'. Is the HSBC in the North, Illegal? A YES or NO will suffice.

Regards

Deniz

That would mean..

BMW
Land Rover
Renault
Fiat
Gloria Jeans
Nike
Addidas
Swatch
Toshiba
etc etc etc are all illegal.....sorry to burst your bubble but life goes on even in the face of GC intrangience and enforced isolation.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis,
I liked your example, though not your analysis of it.

OK, so I am from Xland, I get to my ship and I go to Yland. I kill a person and then I go back to my ship and live from Yland.

According to your theories, I can not be arrested for my crime unless I am cough in Yland by the Yland authorities.

If you commit a crime in Yland - that is to say it is an action which is a criminal offence in that state - and you are caught in Yland, then you'll be prosecuted as per normal in Yland. If you however flee Yland back to Xland then unless Xland and Yland have an international agreement for extradition, or that they otherwise agree to prosecute each other's cases, then you are 'safe' from prosecution. That is why extradition law is so important (and so complex). That is why various EU agreements are so revolutionary because they overturn centuries-old established immunities from extra-sovereign jurisdiction.

The issue of the ship is, pardon the pun, a red-herring. If you are caught on the ship before it leaves territorial waters then no problem, you're nicked. If on the high seas then various international agreements might be applicable. But this has got nothing to do with this thread's topic of use of ports (that is to say, a criminal action is a criminal action regardless of whether the act was conducted in a port or a mountain, whether the perpetrator is caught in territorial waters or on the dock side.

observer is spot on

Cyprus has extradition treaties with most countries. There is also this which makes extraditions among EU countries easier: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Arrest_Warrant

Do they have anything with the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus?

[Kifeas]

Kikapu,

Ah ... a sane voice. Actually, all I am trying to do is stop this insane bandying of the word "illegal". Something is only illegal if there is a law against it, and there seems to be a strain of GC thought that if they make a law then the rest of the world is duty bound to enforce it.

I think that you are not quite right about the rules regarding clearing of ports. The rules for clearing ports are set by the governing authority in whose territory the port lies. Famagusta currently lies within the authority of the TRNC government and it is they who set the rules. Provided those rules are obeyed, no other country (save RoC) gives a legal rats arse.

If I were a lawyer, I'd use Protocol 10 of Cyprus' acquis communaire to show that RoC admit that they are not the de facto governing authority of territory (including ports) to the north of the Green Line, should I be intercepted on the high seas by a GC vessel.

The rules concerning air traffic are separate and different to those that cover sea ports.

Nonsense! The RoC may not be the de facto controlling authority, but of course it is the de jure authority that has the jurisdiction to sovereignly decide on the status of ports of entry, as well as other matters, in all parts of Cyprus! It may not have the power to enforce this jurisdiction in the occupied north, but it has the power to enforce its jurisdiction internationally, and you will soon (by coming June) discover it when the European Communities court will rule upon the Oram's case!

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu,

Ah ... a sane voice. Actually, all I am trying to do is stop this insane bandying of the word "illegal". Something is only illegal if there is a law against it, and there seems to be a strain of GC thought that if they make a law then the rest of the world is duty bound to enforce it.

I think that you are not quite right about the rules regarding clearing of ports. The rules for clearing ports are set by the governing authority in whose territory the port lies. Famagusta currently lies within the authority of the TRNC government and it is they who set the rules. Provided those rules are obeyed, no other country (save RoC) gives a legal rats arse.

If I were a lawyer, I'd use Protocol 10 of Cyprus' acquis communaire to show that RoC admit that they are not the de facto governing authority of territory (including ports) to the north of the Green Line, should I be intercepted on the high seas by a GC vessel.

The rules concerning air traffic are separate and different to those that cover sea ports.

Nonsense! The RoC may not be the de facto controlling authority, but of course it is the de jure authority that has the jurisdiction to sovereignly decide on the status of ports of entry, as well as other matters, in all parts of Cyprus! It may not have the power to enforce this jurisdiction in the occupied north, but it has the power to enforce its jurisdiction internationally, and you will soon (by coming June) discover it when the European Communities court will rule upon the Oram's case!

Kifeas when are they due to rule on the Orams case? havent they sold their property in the UK?

[Kifeas]

Kikapu,

Ah ... a sane voice. Actually, all I am trying to do is stop this insane bandying of the word "illegal". Something is only illegal if there is a law against it, and there seems to be a strain of GC thought that if they make a law then the rest of the world is duty bound to enforce it.

I think that you are not quite right about the rules regarding clearing of ports. The rules for clearing ports are set by the governing authority in whose territory the port lies. Famagusta currently lies within the authority of the TRNC government and it is they who set the rules. Provided those rules are obeyed, no other country (save RoC) gives a legal rats arse.

If I were a lawyer, I'd use Protocol 10 of Cyprus' acquis communaire to show that RoC admit that they are not the de facto governing authority of territory (including ports) to the north of the Green Line, should I be intercepted on the high seas by a GC vessel.

The rules concerning air traffic are separate and different to those that cover sea ports.

Nonsense! The RoC may not be the de facto controlling authority, but of course it is the de jure authority that has the jurisdiction to sovereignly decide on the status of ports of entry, as well as other matters, in all parts of Cyprus! It may not have the power to enforce this jurisdiction in the occupied north, but it has the power to enforce its jurisdiction internationally, and you will soon (by coming June) discover it when the European Communities court will rule upon the Oram's case!

Kifeas when are they due to rule on the Orams case? havent they sold their property in the UK?

Even if they sold their property in the UK, they will still be liable for the money they already owe to Apostolides, and to fully comply with the ruling of the RoC court, therefore they may even end up in jail!

And a final note for you, Observer: Rest sure when I catch you committing the trespassing you currently do in my occupied property in the north and get to know your details, I will fuck your brains out through the courts (and not only!) I do not care if a TC lives in my property, but I will be glad to fuck every fagot foreigner that has usurped even one square inch of GC property in the north!

[Sotos]

Is Observer foreigner? I thought he was a TC.

[MR-from-NG]

Kikapu,

Ah ... a sane voice. Actually, all I am trying to do is stop this insane bandying of the word "illegal". Something is only illegal if there is a law against it, and there seems to be a strain of GC thought that if they make a law then the rest of the world is duty bound to enforce it.

I think that you are not quite right about the rules regarding clearing of ports. The rules for clearing ports are set by the governing authority in whose territory the port lies. Famagusta currently lies within the authority of the TRNC government and it is they who set the rules. Provided those rules are obeyed, no other country (save RoC) gives a legal rats arse.

If I were a lawyer, I'd use Protocol 10 of Cyprus' acquis communaire to show that RoC admit that they are not the de facto governing authority of territory (including ports) to the north of the Green Line, should I be intercepted on the high seas by a GC vessel.

The rules concerning air traffic are separate and different to those that cover sea ports.

Nonsense! The RoC may not be the de facto controlling authority, but of course it is the de jure authority that has the jurisdiction to sovereignly decide on the status of ports of entry, as well as other matters, in all parts of Cyprus! It may not have the power to enforce this jurisdiction in the occupied north, but it has the power to enforce its jurisdiction internationally, and you will soon (by coming June) discover it when the European Communities court will rule upon the Oram's case!

Kifeas when are they due to rule on the Orams case? havent they sold their property in the UK?

Even if they sold their property in the UK, they will still be liable for the money they already owe to Apostolides, and to fully comply with the ruling of the RoC court, therefore they may even end up in jail!

And a final note for you, Observer: Rest sure when I catch you committing the trespassing you currently do in my occupied property in the north and get to know your details, I will fuck your brains out through the courts (and not only!) I do not care if a TC lives in my property, but I will be glad to fuck every fagot foreigner that has usurped even one square inch of GC property in the north!

Please don't forget to practice safe sex......................use a condom.

[phoenix]

I will help to speedily end this injustice of rampant Turk-Tcs running amok and completely lawless in a European country that has never set a foot wrong in their own country ...

Go home Turks .... wherever that may be .

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu,

Ah ... a sane voice. Actually, all I am trying to do is stop this insane bandying of the word "illegal". Something is only illegal if there is a law against it, and there seems to be a strain of GC thought that if they make a law then the rest of the world is duty bound to enforce it.

I think that you are not quite right about the rules regarding clearing of ports. The rules for clearing ports are set by the governing authority in whose territory the port lies. Famagusta currently lies within the authority of the TRNC government and it is they who set the rules. Provided those rules are obeyed, no other country (save RoC) gives a legal rats arse.

If I were a lawyer, I'd use Protocol 10 of Cyprus' acquis communaire to show that RoC admit that they are not the de facto governing authority of territory (including ports) to the north of the Green Line, should I be intercepted on the high seas by a GC vessel.

The rules concerning air traffic are separate and different to those that cover sea ports.

Nonsense! The RoC may not be the de facto controlling authority, but of course it is the de jure authority that has the jurisdiction to sovereignly decide on the status of ports of entry, as well as other matters, in all parts of Cyprus! It may not have the power to enforce this jurisdiction in the occupied north, but it has the power to enforce its jurisdiction internationally, and you will soon (by coming June) discover it when the European Communities court will rule upon the Oram's case!

Kifeas when are they due to rule on the Orams case? havent they sold their property in the UK?

Even if they sold their property in the UK, they will still be liable for the money they already owe to Apostolides, and to fully comply with the ruling of the RoC court, therefore they may even end up in jail!

And a final note for you, Observer: Rest sure when I catch you committing the trespassing you currently do in my occupied property in the north and get to know your details, I will fuck your brains out through the courts (and not only!) I do not care if a TC lives in my property, but I will be glad to fuck every fagot foreigner that has usurped even one square inch of GC property in the north!

How can the "RoC" courts make them pay? will the UK arrest their own??

Whats with the anger and insults??

[MR-from-NG]

I will help to speedily end this injustice of rampant Turk-Tcs running amok and completely lawless in a European country that has never set a foot wrong in their own country ...

Go home Turks .... wherever that may be .

When are you going to get off your PC and pay a bit of attention to your mother and son. There now, be a good girl and do the right thing.