Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

Yes we are and PROUD!

Yes .... what are you?

Before a fall, .... comes what?

Pride. I know...and I do say it with pride specially when I'm replying to posts like your one above...."Traitors of the RoC" you say... Wasn't it YOU who was the ORIGINAL traitor of the RoC?

Being true to the RoC is doing what the majority deems best for the country at the time.

So how is that betraying the RoC?

So you are a Nazi...The majority of Germans thought that the world should be theirs and the Jews should die...It is about time you learned right from wrong missy

[zan]

Piratis
Wrong again. You have the habit of substituting what you think should be the case for what is actually the case. So you claim that

'They are citizens of Turkey and Turkey is responsible for them, not us.'

Basically a citizen outside their country might have expected to receive the protection of their own state, but the home state does not owe that citizen an obligation to protect. So if you leave Cyprus and go and live in the UK you cannot demand that Cyprus protect you nor let alone take responsibility for you actions. This is basic stuff. And if you are no longer a citizen of the original/birth state then you can't claim anything at all.

You might think that morally Turkey has a responsibility for erstwhile Turkish citizens but it does not have a legal responsibility. And there are lots of cases where states have had clear moral responsibilities to their erstwhile citizens living permanently or semi-permanently outside the home country, and have 'abandoned' them. The history of the end of the British and French empires are littered with such cases. Incidentally Cypriots, on the whole, did not fall foul of this practice following independence - Cypriots being sufficiently white to be on the 'inside' of Britain's racist immigration and citizenship laws.

Cooperline, the Settlers are the responsibility of Turkey because they were brought to Cyprus by Turkey in violation of the Geneva convention.

The Settlers are not a responsibility neither of Cypriots nor of the Cypriot State.

If Turkey does not want to rectify its crime by compensating those people then those people have the right to seek justice against Turkey in the ECHR.

You should have thought about that when you destroyed the first ever Cyprus Republic........They are now the responsibility of Cyprus...

[zan]

There was one thing I didn't think about when I created this post: If Turkey becomes an EU member, their citizens will have the same rights to work and settle anywhere in the EU. That means in this circumstance that the settlers brought in by Turkey would become EU citizens with full rights.

In regards to your stance, Phoenix, your hard-line stance is going to do nothing to alleviate the situation. If indeed a setter married a Turkish Cypriot, then how does that make the T/C a traitor? G/C's can marry anyone they like can't they? Or do you favor only Cypriots marrying Cypriots at the cost of their citizenship if they marry foreigners?

This should tell you a little more about the intentions of the "RoC" utu...This is not about the settlers as such but about overall power in Cyprus. They also know that the idea that any EU citizen settling anywhere in Europe is also a myth...Italy was only recently deporting undesirables by the thousands. What criteria do you put on undesirables? It is only free if you have the right amount of money.

[Nikitas]

Utu said:

"If Turkey becomes an EU member, their citizens will have the same rights to work and settle anywhere in the EU. That means in this circumstance that the settlers brought in by Turkey would become EU citizens with full rights. "

It does not go exactly like that. It is permissible for existing members to have reservations about the establishment of persons from new member states. If you recall Britain asked for and got limitations on Turkish citizens moving to the UK during talks on Turkish accession a few years ago.

ALso in the Annan plan there was express provision for the limitation of both mainlands' citizens settling in Cyprus. Presumably both sides will want similar provisions in a future settlement.

Marriage is not an issue. It is settled that those marrying Cypriots can become Cypriot citizens.

[CopperLine]

Nikitas
I don't know whether your inadvertently conflating nationality and citizenship but please be serious about what you call 'revoking' citizenship. There are many states which, for example, refuse dual citizenship and if the person thereby chooses the citizenship ship of a second state then the 'home' state revokes their citizenship. This is not uncommmon.

Turkey has no choice nor any latitude of discretion here.

Morally I probably agree with you, but politically and legally Turkey would not be the first state to 'sell a portion of its people down the river' as your examples seem to suggest.

[Jerry]

Utu said:

"If Turkey becomes an EU member, their citizens will have the same rights to work and settle anywhere in the EU. That means in this circumstance that the settlers brought in by Turkey would become EU citizens with full rights. "

It does not go exactly like that. It is permissible for existing members to have reservations about the establishment of persons from new member states. If you recall Britain asked for and got limitations on Turkish citizens moving to the UK during talks on Turkish accession a few years ago.

ALso in the Annan plan there was express provision for the limitation of both mainlands' citizens settling in Cyprus. Presumably both sides will want similar provisions in a future settlement.

Marriage is not an issue. It is settled that those marrying Cypriots can become Cypriot citizens.

Nikitas the EU has said that it will not allow permanent derogations of its laws so one day, say ten years after joining, Turkish citizens will be allowed to move anywhere in the EU. This includes the UK and Cyprus. The provisions of the Annan plan would have been modified. I have mentioned this before but nobody has picked up on it - Cyprus will never allow Turkey to join the EU because in time the whole of the island would be "Turkish" but legally this time.

[zan]

Utu said:

"If Turkey becomes an EU member, their citizens will have the same rights to work and settle anywhere in the EU. That means in this circumstance that the settlers brought in by Turkey would become EU citizens with full rights. "

It does not go exactly like that. It is permissible for existing members to have reservations about the establishment of persons from new member states. If you recall Britain asked for and got limitations on Turkish citizens moving to the UK during talks on Turkish accession a few years ago.

ALso in the Annan plan there was express provision for the limitation of both mainlands' citizens settling in Cyprus. Presumably both sides will want similar provisions in a future settlement.

Marriage is not an issue. It is settled that those marrying Cypriots can become Cypriot citizens.

Nikitas the EU has said that it will not allow permanent derogations of its laws so one day, say ten years after joining, Turkish citizens will be allowed to move anywhere in the EU. This includes the UK and Cyprus. The provisions of the Annan plan would have been modified. I have mentioned this before but nobody has picked up on it - Cyprus will never allow Turkey to join the EU because in time the whole of the island would be "Turkish" but legally this time.

Question to Copperline:

What would be the likelihood of a country as small of Cyprus ever being kicked out of the EU??

[Kikapu]

Utu said:

"If Turkey becomes an EU member, their citizens will have the same rights to work and settle anywhere in the EU. That means in this circumstance that the settlers brought in by Turkey would become EU citizens with full rights. "

It does not go exactly like that. It is permissible for existing members to have reservations about the establishment of persons from new member states. If you recall Britain asked for and got limitations on Turkish citizens moving to the UK during talks on Turkish accession a few years ago.

ALso in the Annan plan there was express provision for the limitation of both mainlands' citizens settling in Cyprus. Presumably both sides will want similar provisions in a future settlement.

Marriage is not an issue. It is settled that those marrying Cypriots can become Cypriot citizens.

Nikitas the EU has said that it will not allow permanent derogations of its laws so one day, say ten years after joining, Turkish citizens will be allowed to move anywhere in the EU. This includes the UK and Cyprus. The provisions of the Annan plan would have been modified. I have mentioned this before but nobody has picked up on it - Cyprus will never allow Turkey to join the EU because in time the whole of the island would be "Turkish" but legally this time.

Question to Copperline:

What would be the likelihood of a country as small of Cyprus ever being kicked out of the EU??

What would be the likelihood of a country as small of Cyprus ever being kicked out of the EU?

Zan, what's the matter.?? Did the light finally come on in your head, that with Cyprus entering the EU in 2004 has changed the course of history from the envisioned 1974 Invasion and the 1983 Unilateral Independence of the "TRNC", so now you are trying to find a way to get Cyprus out of the EU, so that the course can once again be re-directed back to '74 & '83.???

[zan]

Utu said:

"If Turkey becomes an EU member, their citizens will have the same rights to work and settle anywhere in the EU. That means in this circumstance that the settlers brought in by Turkey would become EU citizens with full rights. "

It does not go exactly like that. It is permissible for existing members to have reservations about the establishment of persons from new member states. If you recall Britain asked for and got limitations on Turkish citizens moving to the UK during talks on Turkish accession a few years ago.

ALso in the Annan plan there was express provision for the limitation of both mainlands' citizens settling in Cyprus. Presumably both sides will want similar provisions in a future settlement.

Marriage is not an issue. It is settled that those marrying Cypriots can become Cypriot citizens.

Nikitas the EU has said that it will not allow permanent derogations of its laws so one day, say ten years after joining, Turkish citizens will be allowed to move anywhere in the EU. This includes the UK and Cyprus. The provisions of the Annan plan would have been modified. I have mentioned this before but nobody has picked up on it - Cyprus will never allow Turkey to join the EU because in time the whole of the island would be "Turkish" but legally this time.

Question to Copperline:

What would be the likelihood of a country as small of Cyprus ever being kicked out of the EU??

What would be the likelihood of a country as small of Cyprus ever being kicked out of the EU?

Zan, what's the matter.?? Did the light finally come on in your head, that with Cyprus entering the EU in 2004 has changed the course of history from the envisioned 1974 Invasion and the 1983 Unilateral Independence of the "TRNC", so now you are trying to find a way to get Cyprus out of the EU, so that the course can once again be re-directed back to '74 & '83.???

Huh Thats about all I can say to that Still rooting for that illegal state ha does not represent the TCs mate.................

[Nikitas]

There is no way they can kick out a state from the EU. They can freeze relations and participation in certain processes of the EU as happened with Austria when the fascist fellow got into government. Once the state of affairs changes relations normalise.

The EU is not a social club. It is a complex bundle of processes that bind nations together. Once in you are always in. In any case, Cyprus has not so far created any waves in the EU. It is other states that cause major problems in most areas including Turkish accession.