Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

I wish you guys would just meet in a bar sometime, have a few drinks, and try to find something to agree on. Basically - Zan - you say that since Greece tried to take over Cyprus and remove the Turkish Cypriot presence from the island, the 1974 intervention and 1983 UDI was justified. On the other side - Boomerang - you say that the Greeks were trying to prevent Turkey's proximity to Cyprus from splitting up the island and thus the 'American-orcestrated' coup by Sampson provided the excuse Turkey wanted. Add to these arguments the historical emnity between Greece and Turkey, and the end result is what is in place on Cyprus now. Like all views of history, there are exaggerations and false justifications, but there is also an element of fact. It seems like Cyprus' problem all along has been its location in the Mediteranian Sea. Under the geopolitical goings-on of the Cold War, independence was never going to be accepted.
So, now that we have the differences exposed, plus the basic problem of realpolitik in a politically unstable area, is there anything that both sides can agree on? I havd read talk about a Cypriot identity, but the tone of the posts indicate that there isn't really one - at least not here in this forum. So what's left? Find the common denominator, and you might have soemtihng to build upon, rather than tearing apart each other's structure...

At the end of the day utu, the fact that he GCs have full control of the "RoC" to this day is the problem. The justifications of why is really irrelevant if they are serious in moving forward with unification as a solution.

Zan like any invader, you have a problem with the legitimate government of the country you have victimised.

The problem is with you, you want something you are not entitled to.

It is not about possession but about the distribution of power.

But again, because you are invaders, you do not want to relinquish power.

Then relinquish power to the donkeys or what about we take blood samples of all the Cypriots and all those with Greek in their blood and those with Turkish can be evicted.......Only pure Cypriots can stay.........Seems that you invaded first........You are always starting it aren't you...

[utu]

That's the question, isn't it, Zan? If the government of TRNC is regarded as illigitimate as it is seen to be imposed by what is termed an occupying power (Turkey), does the Republic of Cyprus government have a just claim of ligitimacy if they indeed tried to denude the island of the Turkish Cypriot presence in 1963-64 and 1974? The RoCy is officially governed under the Constitution of 1960 (a more-or-less imposed document by the UK), but it was set up as a partnership republic (albeit one which allowed British military bases). If one of the partners only is calling the shots and the other side is left out in the cold, it logically ceases to become what the consitition envisaged, turning a document that is supposed to be the supreme law of the land into a piece of paper.

Now, we have conflicting views as to why the partnership republic failed (Greeks say Turks left the government of their own accord in an attempt to make the government non-fubnctional while Turks say that they were forced out of the organs of governemt at gunpoint by Greeks when they attempted to unilaterally change the constitution in the Greek's favor). Regardless of which argument is more accurate, the end result is that the partnership republic under the 1960 Constitution effectively ceased to exist in December 1963, and if anything is to be done to facilitate reconciliation between the communities, that constitution must either be totally honored, or be changed.
That involves not only changing the document, but also the attitudes of the people, and of the protective powers (Greece, UK, Turkey). Someone has to make the first move... and - I'm sorry to have to say this to you all - that must not involve recrimination or accusation. Start coming up with solutions and stop accusing each other of atrocities (which both sides have been guilty of - let's have no delusions about that), and perhaps there will be some progress. If the desire is out there for an independent Cyprus as part of Europe, then come up with a plan to make it happen, before it is too late...

[zan]

That's the question, isn't it, Zan? If the government of TRNC is regarded as illigitimate as it is seen to be imposed by what is termed an occupying power (Turkey), does the Republic of Cyprus government have a just claim of ligitimacy if they indeed tried to denude the island of the Turkish Cypriot presence in 1963-64 and 1974? The RoCy is officially governed under the Constitution of 1960 (a more-or-less imposed document by the UK), but it was set up as a partnership republic (albeit one which allowed British military bases). If one of the partners only is calling the shots and the other side is left out in the cold, it logically ceases to become what the consitition envisaged, turning a document that is supposed to be the supreme law of the land into a piece of paper.

Now, we have conflicting views as to why the partnership republic failed (Greeks say Turks left the government of their own accord in an attempt to make the government non-fubnctional while Turks say that they were forced out of the organs of governemt at gunpoint by Greeks when they attempted to unilaterally change the constitution in the Greek's favor). Regardless of which argument is more accurate, the end result is that the partnership republic under the 1960 Constitution effectively ceased to exist in December 1963, and if anything is to be done to facilitate reconciliation between the communities, that constitution must either be totally honored, or be changed.
That involves not only changing the document, but also the attitudes of the people, and of the protective powers (Greece, UK, Turkey). Someone has to make the first move... and - I'm sorry to have to say this to you all - that must not involve recrimination or accusation. Start coming up with solutions and stop accusing each other of atrocities (which both sides have been guilty of - let's have no delusions about that), and perhaps there will be some progress. If the desire is out there for an independent Cyprus as part of Europe, then come up with a plan to make it happen, before it is too late...

That is what the UN and the EU have finally realised utu but because the UN were tricked into recognising the GCs as the government of Cyprus so that they could come in as a "peace keeping" force, all subsequent decisions have been dictated to by that one hasty decision. The "RoC" have used that to beet us into the ground but there again that was the intention of the Akritas Plan. What really makes me angry is that they are still acting in line with that plan so my trust of Tpap is based on his actions, being the author of that plan.

Now because, as you say, there was no desire from the "RoC" to relinquish that advantage, we have had to resort to outside powers to solve the problem, the UN being the main negotiator. Thery have done all they can to get a solution on this and the Annan Plan was the last straw for them. Make no mistake, this election is vital and if there is no movement from the "RoC" to accept that they will not get away with that deception then partition will happen. It may not be able to recognise the TRNC/KKTC, because of the above complications, but it will open the doors for a Taiwan type situation. If other events around the globe change and a loop hole in he legal system is found then we will also get recognition in due time.

[utu]

A lot will depend then on subsequent actions by the various parties. Let's just hope that sanity will prevail somewhere...

[zan]

A lot will depend then on subsequent actions by the various parties. Let's just hope that sanity will prevail somewhere...

Depends what you mean by sanity. If the best thing to do is partition then that is what should happen. I personally cannot see instant unification working. Too much animosity will make it seem as if either side is always traveling up hill. Maybe a loose federation will work but it will have to be studied hard and nothing was studied and planned harder than the Annan Plan and we all know what happened her.