Cyprus-Forum.com

[metecyp]

We are either going to try to make something true, or not bother at all.
Why the crimes that were committed against TCs from GCs are not "sensitive" for me and I am more than willing to discuss and document them, while the crimes of TCs and Turkey against GCs are "sensitive" and should be hidden and disguised?

I think it's more important to document what really happenned in Cyprus in the summer of 1974 than worry about the actual labelling for the operation.

Since the aim is to make something true, let's talk about what crimes were committed by Turks/TCs and GCs. Believe me, there're enough crimes on both sides so we don't have to worry about being one-sided. Let's not fall into the trap of invasion/intervention/peaceoperation but rather talk about the events of 1974 and let people decide what they want to call it.

Secondly, I think we should try to keep the human angle alive at every point of the documentary. Watching a historical documentary is great but when there're ordinary human characters involved and when they talk about their experiences, it's always more powerful and compelling.

[insan]

The guarantor treaty was supposed to be one to guarantee RoC, not one that will split it into parts and ethnically cleanse Greek Cypriots from 1/3rd of the island. What turkey did to Cyprus has nothing to do with the treaty.

Turkey as one of the guarantor power of RoC had done it best to keep it up for 14 years from 1960 to 1974. However there's a limitation of patience. After the coup d'etat, Greek invasion and war of 1974; it was impossible to restore constitutional order on the basis of the unitary state. Afterwards war of 1974, Turkey has done her best to restore the constitutional order on the basis of a bi-communal, bi-zonal federation. Alexandros opened an excellent topic for us to discuss the full story to examine both side's of the medallion. I'm looking forward to see your contribution for a common documentary about the last 50 years of Cyprus problem. Although I know your point of view concerning the issue; I really wonder what kind of documentary you would make if you were given such a duty. I'm looking forward to hear your comprehensive suggestions, point of view for an objective documentary that involves 1955-1977 period.

[cannedmoose]

Alexandros, I think it's a great idea, particularly the attempt to steer a middle ground (there have been plenty of documentaries displaying a high degree of bias). My only question would be why stop in 1977. Surely the point of documentaries is to relate the past to the present, so stopping in 1977 would seem to be telling only half the story. The cut-off date of 1977 misses important events such as the declaration of TRNC in 1983, the EU application debate in the 1990s and most importantly the AP talks, all key events in the history of the Cyprus problem. Perhaps the first period of such a documentary could cover from 1955-August 1974, with a second documentary covering the post-invasion/intervention period from September 1974-May 2004?

Anyways, a really good idea, I'll have a think and get back to you with some suggestions as to content.

[insan]

1- 1955 to 1958

Formation of EOKA and start of ENOSIS armed struggle. The reasons behind the desire of Enosis. The relevance between "megali idea" and Enosis. Was EOKA an facist organization? Why did Enosist GCs choose a fascist leader for themselves? Could a fascist leader be a freedom fighter? How GC "freedom fighters" embraced such a monarcho-fascist leader like Grivas?

My friends, is there anybody among you that wishes to discuss and question the first period of Cyprus problem? I'm looking forward to hear both TCs and GCs views, arguments about the first period of cyprus problem; 1955 to 1958

[cannedmoose]

Alex's idea has also just inspired a 'eureka' moment for me too. A while ago I was watching a documentary about Steven Spielberg's Shoah Visual History Foundation (see web link below). Basically, the Shoah Foundation goes around interviewing Jewish survivors of the holocaust, recording their memories for posterity and providing people today with first-hand testimonies of their suffering.

http://www.vhf.org/vhfmain-2.htm

I really do think that this template is ready made for Cyprus, it would allow people from all sides to record their memories of various periods in history such as:

1. British colonial period 1878-1955 (obviously the start date is beyond current memory, but there are plenty of written personal accounts that could be compiled. As for the 1930s, 1940s and early 1950s, anyone aged over 70 would be able to contribute to this)

2. Emergency period 1955-1959 (getting the testimonies of EOKA members, members of the TC auxiliary police and Volkan members, British police and army members, and everyday folk affected by the strife. Anyone aged over 65 would be able to contribute to this)

3. Independence and the collapse of the bicommunal state 1960-1963 (testimonies from politicians, members of both communities, EOKA and TMT members)

4. to be continued later on...


Given the amount of archive film interviews from people like Makarios, Denktas, Sampson etc., this could also be incorporated to provide a backdrop to the comments of everyday folk.

Anyway, I'm out of time, have to pick up some dry-cleaning! I think this is an idea really worth pursuing if anyone is interested in collaborating to get this off the ground. Alex's idea for a documentary could be the jump-off point for this. I'm sure given its focus on bicommunal memories, there would be funding available to produce this. Let me know if I'm onto something folks and let me know if you'd be interested in getting involved - I'd obviously need some Cypriot help on this otherwise it would seem like an 'outside-in' imposed idea.

I'll add more to this message when I have time later today

[Alexandros Lordos]

OK, we can assume that there is enough interest to get this going ...

There will be difficult points where we will strongly disagree, such as the nature of the EOKA struggle, or the nature of the 1974 events, but if anybody can complete the difficult task of integrating opposing perspectives I believe we can: Where else do you have people from the two communities talking with each other 24 hours a day, the way it is done in this forum?

We dont actually have to end up agreeing on everything, the documentary can also be about simply presenting the various viewpoints, as Insan says.

I also agree with metecyp, that the focus should first be on the "human story" - the struggle of people who were trying to realize their dreams and comfort their fears - and only secondarily on "the investigation for histrorical truth". Otherwise we will instantly run into a minefield of controversy, as Piratis so aptly illustrated ...

I tend to agree with Insan and Cannedmoose, that we should continue right up to the present day. In fact, I don't think that even the two parts which Cannedmoose suggests will be enough: I envision a "mini-series" running perhaps to four, six, even eight documentaries.

What I suggest we do now, is to open separate discussion threads for each of the historical periods, so that we can focus in detail. I will open now the first four threads (1955-1959, 1959/60, 1960-1963, 1963/64), and in a few days' time we can open some more ...

[magikthrill]

Where is the series for 1974?

I don't mind accepting 1974 as an intervention (versus invasion) as long as it is stated as an intervention that lead to 200,000 GC being refugees in their own country and then turned into an occupation.

Likewise when discussing EOKA, there should be a reference to the harm it caused to TCs (did it?) aside from helping gain independence.

[Alexandros Lordos]

Where is the series for 1974?

Don't worry, it's coming ...

I just didn't want to fill the site with ten new threads at one go, I'll add more topics in a day or two ...

[MicAtCyp]

Turkey as one of the guarantor power of RoC had done it best to keep it up for 14 years from 1960 to 1974. However there's a limitation of patience. After the coup d'etat, Greek invasion and war of 1974; it was impossible to restore constitutional order on the basis of the unitary state.

A)One might claim that. Another one might claim she tried all she could to succeed partition, and got the chance in 1974. In this respect the so called patience ends when the chance is there.

Afterwards war of 1974, Turkey has done her best to restore the constitutional order on the basis of a bi-communal, bi-zonal federation.

B)I don't know any way to even sensibly support this. The other side of the coin is that they assigned Denktash the role to cement partition or legalise the results of the Invasion.

Joining A and B together seems the coin was always called partition.

PS. Insan, you are repeating the same groundless arguments again and again. When someone tries to discuss their validity you withdraw to your Hellenes conspiracy theories...


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Alex,
isn’t the documentary supposed to be based on 100% personally witnessed facts?Or at least facts witnessed by our fathers/mothers grandpas etc and passed over to us?
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[insan]

PS. Insan, you are repeating the same groundless arguments again and again. When someone tries to discuss their validity you withdraw to your Hellenes conspiracy theories...

The best proof of my arguments can be seen on Hellenic propaganda sites which are fed by Hellenic financial resources. The ones who rule the politicians are big capital owners not the politicians themselves. TCs and Turkey gained nothing from the ongoing defacto situation. And Turkey has never been the hostage of a bunch of self-seekers of North. In the last 30 years TC refugees made gains of GC properties 1 billion $, GC refugees made gains of TC properties 100 billion $. It is the GC community who benefited from the ongoing defacto situation not TC community. The GC refugees who use TC properties benefited at least hundred times more than the TC refugees. All of the TC share of tourism income has flown to South, in last 30 years. It is obvious for whose benefit works the defacto situation and unresolved Cyprus problem. Your every action and argument manifest itself that what you are trying to do is weaken TC community and Turkey by economicaly isolating us. You think we'll surrender and sell our rights to you in return of a so-called proserous life. You are wasting your times for nothing. Be sure of that, sooner or later you'll pay the price of your wrong doings and injustice.

Moreover, have GC leadership ever acknowledge the political equality of two communities? No. Even only this reason is enough reason for any TC or Turkish leader to reject any solution proposal which does not contain the political equality of two communities.


It is your arguments that are groundless. Everything is very clear and obviously seen. You owe your so-called success to the Christian Democrats of EU, Greece's EU membership, wealthy influential Hellenes living all around the world and political/economical crisis took place in Turkey. You should know what I mean.