Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

So what does it mean for the "RoC" please give us how it will effect the leverage of the GCs which was really the man reason they entered the EU in the first place. I can understand your happiness in the fact that you feel Turkey will not get into the EU on what Germany and France have said because you love Turkey and the Turks so much but I feel France and Germany are doing the right thing in telling Turkey to forget it sonner rather than later when they will be at the door of the EU and maybe forced to compromise on the TRNC in order to get in. Now a refusal will seal no interest in s solution for a long time to come, how will the GCs then approach this even bigger problem? not many other unions left for them to join than can apply pressur eon Turkey. So in reality the GCs shoudl be pissed off with Germany and France for taking the only leverage they had.

[Kikapu]

So what does it mean for the "RoC" please give us how it will effect the leverage of the GCs which was really the man reason they entered the EU in the first place. I can understand your happiness in the fact that you feel Turkey will not get into the EU on what Germany and France have said because you love Turkey and the Turks so much but I feel France and Germany are doing the right thing in telling Turkey to forget it sonner rather than later when they will be at the door of the EU and maybe forced to compromise on the TRNC in order to get in. Now a refusal will seal no interest in s solution for a long time to come, how will the GCs then approach this even bigger problem? not many other unions left for them to join than can apply pressur eon Turkey. So in reality the GCs shoudl be pissed off with Germany and France for taking the only leverage they had.

Not exactly VP. As I told you before, time does not stand still. What may be so today, may not be so tomorrow. This is the one lesson I have been trying to teach you for a very long time now. In a Democracy, as times chance, so do the situation of that country, therefore what decisions taken today, may be different later. Who is to say, that in 10-15 years time world politics will not change to a degree that Turkey may well be accepted to the EU. Perhaps there will come a time, when the TC's themselves will want to be in the EU without Turkey being there also, so they will want to cut a deal directly with the RoC. Guess what, the RoC will still have her veto over Turkey and the "TRNC"and the GC's still be wanting their land back.

Just think how much more disruption there's going to be to those living in the "TRNC" in the future or how much more expensive is going to be to pay the GC's for their land, even if they did not move back. You can't even afford to pay them at today's prices. How on earth will you be able to afford to pay them at tomorrow's prices, when your economy will crash as soon as most of GC land is sold to foreigners. What will you sell next to make a living. You are already running a "artificial" economy today. Another 10-15 years without recognition or lifting of the isolation, and you will be at the mercy of the RoC to come and cut a deal with you, assuming of course, that Turkey is willing to keep paying the "TRNC" every year, just to keep you happy until then. Even if the isolation were lifted, I would doubt the economy of the "TRNC" will lift more than couple of points.

You talk about not having direct flights as being the problem with not having enough tourist. Do you think there are direct flights to every destination for holiday makers.?? Of course not. People will change 2-3 planes to get to their destinations if they can save money. We flew to Larnaca last year from Zurich via Frankfurt. Why, because it was much, much cheaper than direct flight, by 50% cheaper. So that is not your problem. The problem you are having is, you got 40,000 occupying foreign troops and have an illegal state based on ethnic cleansing. As long as this continues, do not expect an improved economy.

[Viewpoint]

TRNC Internal Affairs Minister states only 60 people have been given citizenship over the past 4 years, the 50.000 plus claim are propaganda and lies.

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu you try to paint a picture of doom and gloom because that's how you see things in your own mind, we have heard all this shit before and the TRNC is still up and running , things are not perfect and we never claim they are but the underlying factor is that we do not have to deal with GC domination which you prefer to Turkish domination, your identity crisis and rejection of anything Turkish does not allow you to see past your nose, you claim we are part of Turkey then you say they will dump you please make up your mind, if we are part of Turkey then they are bound to supporting our economy isn't the last 34 years not enough evidence?

Not exactly VP. As I told you before, time does not stand still. What may be so today, may not be so tomorrow. This is the one lesson I have been trying to teach you for a very long time now. In a Democracy, as times chance, so do the situation of that country, therefore what decisions taken today, may be different later. Who is to say, that in 10-15 years time world politics will not change to a degree that Turkey may well be accepted to the EU. Perhaps there will come a time, when the TC's themselves will want to be in the EU without Turkey being there also, so they will want to cut a deal directly with the RoC. Guess what, the RoC will still have her veto over Turkey and the "TRNC"and the GC's still be wanting their land back.

I'm not disputing this but like your claims above the scenario could be completely different where the aging EU will need Turkey to sustain growth in the region, I stated before Turkey in 2008 is nowhere ready for the EU but a Turkey in 20+ years times will be viewed in a different light. As for the little "RoC" compared to a 85 million market in 20 years will be nothing more than a nuisance to the EU, the GCs will be slapped and told to behave, can you imagine 20 years of non solution on the island I think the EU countries will have had enough of GC intransigence they are already showing the signs of regret for allowing a divided island into the EU this will escalate as they see for themselves exactly who does not want a solution.

Just think how much more disruption there's going to be to those living in the "TRNC" in the future or how much more expensive is going to be to pay the GC's for their land, even if they did not move back. You can't even afford to pay them at today's prices. How on earth will you be able to afford to pay them at tomorrow's prices, when your economy will crash as soon as most of GC land is sold to foreigners. What will you sell next to make a living. You are already running a "artificial" economy today. Another 10-15 years without recognition or lifting of the isolation, and you will be at the mercy of the RoC to come and cut a deal with you, assuming of course, that Turkey is willing to keep paying the "TRNC" every year, just to keep you happy until then. Even if the isolation were lifted, I would doubt the economy of the "TRNC" will lift more than couple of points.

This again is your scenario pf doom and gloom but as you yourself stated things never remain the same, land today tourism tomorrow. You right that time does not work in the GCs favor as the reversal of land development will be near enough impossible. If they thought the AP was bad taking into the situation as at 2004 can you imagine how much more complex and much less rights they will get? Take Poland as an example, previous owners were given a pittance, the choice to compromise is really in the hands of those that rejected the plan put forward and rubber stamped by the UN, they choose to use little tit for tat tactics to gain little victories here and there which leads them nowhere.

The tourism minister today declared that they are working closely with the UK and Germany to increase the number of tourists to 1 million per year so all is not as bleak as you try to make out, the GCs have been isolating us and trying to get us to beg for mercy for the last 45 years? whats new? have they succeeded? it only makes us more determined and increases the chasm between the 2 sides, whats makes you think their policies which your appear to support will bear fruit now?

You talk about not having direct flights as being the problem with not having enough tourist. Do you think there are direct flights to every destination for holiday makers.?? Of course not. People will change 2-3 planes to get to their destinations if they can save money. We flew to Larnaca last year from Zurich via Frankfurt. Why, because it was much, much cheaper than direct flight, by 50% cheaper. So that is not your problem. The problem you are having is, you got 40,000 occupying foreign troops and have an illegal state based on ethnic cleansing. As long as this continues, do not expect an improved economy.

Of course direct flights are an important factor, I always prefer to fly direct rather than change, we only have 3 airlines that fly into Ercan right now whereas we would have all other major carriers coming to the north which would increase the potential of increasing the number of tourists that visit the TRNC.

Tourists do not see the 40.000 troops as a threat the intervention ended 34 years ago they could even be seen as a tourist attraction, I have had foreign visitors ask to see the soldiers because they, again due to GC propaganda have the impression they army has swamped the island, when they see the camps they say whats the big deal we have bigger camps in their own country.

You obviously bear hate and venom towards the TRNC thus the TCs and therefore will of course use your great command of the English language to put us down and drag us through the mud. What you have to come to terms with is either a better deal is put on the table that will attract TCs or the current situation will deepen its roots and the chasm will be unbridgeable. The only alternative is for the GCs to force their demands by causing another war but the risk of losing all is also a probability which they cannot ignore.

[Kikapu]

TRNC Internal Affairs Minister states only 60 people have been given citizenship over the past 4 years, the 50.000 plus claim are propaganda and lies.

That's strange, because for the last few weeks, the report of extra 50,000 "new TC" citizens for the "Aliens" has been coming from Turkey and the "TRNC governments" statements.

Are you sure the above statement is not just another Propaganda.???

[Viewpoint]

TRNC Internal Affairs Minister states only 60 people have been given citizenship over the past 4 years, the 50.000 plus claim are propaganda and lies.

That's strange, because for the last few weeks, the report of extra 50,000 "new TC" citizens for the "Aliens" has been coming from Turkey and the "TRNC governments" statements.

Are you sure the above statement is not just another Propaganda.???

No its not propaganda, since the Soyer government settlers have not been given citizenship they are given work permitts which they have to renew or leave. If they delay in renewing their are penalities. I had a settler worker do some work on my home he said he has lived in the TRNC for 3 years but was unable to get citizenship. Goes to show all is not what it seems.

[Kikapu]

Kikapu you try to paint a picture of doom and gloom because that's how you see things in your own mind, we have heard all this shit before and the TRNC is still up and running , things are not perfect and we never claim they are but the underlying factor is that we do not have to deal with GC domination which you prefer to Turkish domination, your identity crisis and rejection of anything Turkish does not allow you to see past your nose, you claim we are part of Turkey then you say they will dump you please make up your mind, if we are part of Turkey then they are bound to supporting our economy isn't the last 34 years not enough evidence?

Not exactly VP. As I told you before, time does not stand still. What may be so today, may not be so tomorrow. This is the one lesson I have been trying to teach you for a very long time now. In a Democracy, as times chance, so do the situation of that country, therefore what decisions taken today, may be different later. Who is to say, that in 10-15 years time world politics will not change to a degree that Turkey may well be accepted to the EU. Perhaps there will come a time, when the TC's themselves will want to be in the EU without Turkey being there also, so they will want to cut a deal directly with the RoC. Guess what, the RoC will still have her veto over Turkey and the "TRNC"and the GC's still be wanting their land back.

I'm not disputing this but like your claims above the scenario could be completely different where the aging EU will need Turkey to sustain growth in the region, I stated before Turkey in 2008 is nowhere ready for the EU but a Turkey in 20+ years times will be viewed in a different light. As for the little "RoC" compared to a 85 million market in 20 years will be nothing more than a nuisance to the EU, the GCs will be slapped and told to behave, can you imagine 20 years of non solution on the island I think the EU countries will have had enough of GC intransigence they are already showing the signs of regret for allowing a divided island into the EU this will escalate as they see for themselves exactly who does not want a solution.

Just think how much more disruption there's going to be to those living in the "TRNC" in the future or how much more expensive is going to be to pay the GC's for their land, even if they did not move back. You can't even afford to pay them at today's prices. How on earth will you be able to afford to pay them at tomorrow's prices, when your economy will crash as soon as most of GC land is sold to foreigners. What will you sell next to make a living. You are already running a "artificial" economy today. Another 10-15 years without recognition or lifting of the isolation, and you will be at the mercy of the RoC to come and cut a deal with you, assuming of course, that Turkey is willing to keep paying the "TRNC" every year, just to keep you happy until then. Even if the isolation were lifted, I would doubt the economy of the "TRNC" will lift more than couple of points.

This again is your scenario pf doom and gloom but as you yourself stated things never remain the same, land today tourism tomorrow. You right that time does not work in the GCs favor as the reversal of land development will be near enough impossible. If they thought the AP was bad taking into the situation as at 2004 can you imagine how much more complex and much less rights they will get? Take Poland as an example, previous owners were given a pittance, the choice to compromise is really in the hands of those that rejected the plan put forward and rubber stamped by the UN, they choose to use little tit for tat tactics to gain little victories here and there which leads them nowhere.

The tourism minister today declared that they are working closely with the UK and Germany to increase the number of tourists to 1 million per year so all is not as bleak as you try to make out, the GCs have been isolating us and trying to get us to beg for mercy for the last 45 years? whats new? have they succeeded? it only makes us more determined and increases the chasm between the 2 sides, whats makes you think their policies which your appear to support will bear fruit now?

You talk about not having direct flights as being the problem with not having enough tourist. Do you think there are direct flights to every destination for holiday makers.?? Of course not. People will change 2-3 planes to get to their destinations if they can save money. We flew to Larnaca last year from Zurich via Frankfurt. Why, because it was much, much cheaper than direct flight, by 50% cheaper. So that is not your problem. The problem you are having is, you got 40,000 occupying foreign troops and have an illegal state based on ethnic cleansing. As long as this continues, do not expect an improved economy.

Of course direct flights are an important factor, I always prefer to fly direct rather than change, we only have 3 airlines that fly into Ercan right now whereas we would have all other major carriers coming to the north which would increase the potential of increasing the number of tourists that visit the TRNC.

Tourists do not see the 40.000 troops as a threat the intervention ended 34 years ago they could even be seen as a tourist attraction, I have had foreign visitors ask to see the soldiers because they, again due to GC propaganda have the impression they army has swamped the island, when they see the camps they say whats the big deal we have bigger camps in their own country.

You obviously bear hate and venom towards the TRNC thus the TCs and therefore will of course use your great command of the English language to put us down and drag us through the mud. What you have to come to terms with is either a better deal is put on the table that will attract TCs or the current situation will deepen its roots and the chasm will be unbridgeable. The only alternative is for the GCs to force their demands by causing another war but the risk of losing all is also a probability which they cannot ignore.

I'm not going to respond with point by point VP. I'm tired of wearing out my computer keyboard trying to explaining things to you. You don't even want a solution, so why do you even pretend that you do and accuse the RoC as not wanting for a settlement, as that would mean giving back land that does not belong to you. Further more, you don't care how many "Aliens" move into the North to overshadow the TC's. You do not care about the future, because you are comfortable with the present. You do not care having created a "corrupt society" to maintain it to become even more corrupted in the future. You rather try and convince the world that you are entitled to stolen land through back door shenanigans than be an honest and respected citizens and not be seen as "Pirates". There is a place for everyone in Cyprus, but that's not where your aim is. Enosis dream for the GC's had come and gone and have built a very comfortable and productive country on the remaining 63% of the island, whereas the TC's Enosis is on going while committing Human Rights violations at the same time. So anytime you mention Enosis, what you are talking if reality, is about yourself, so if you want to keep embarrassing yourself, keep talking about Enosis, because there is only one Enosis for the last 34 years, and that has been you.

You can make as many examples as you like, regarding Poland and land lost for the owners. Don't be so sure that the GC's with their deeds in their hands are going to let their land be taken away, or paid pittance for it. They will be the biggest thorn in your side for ever wanting to become a legalize state. You can ignore them as much as you want, and try using the passing of the time so that the world forgets there ever was a "Cyprus Problem". Who ever thought of that plan, is behind the times of about a century, and when it comes to Cypriots, at least 5 centuries. Pitratis has not forgotten 1571, so what makes you think he or anyone is going to forget about 1974. You forget something, and that is, as far as the International Community knows, whole of Cyprus is the RoC, but the North is under foreign Occupation. The world understand what Occupation means, and no matter how much you want to tell everyone that that is not so, it is too late, since it is down on paper with the world body, the UN.

I'm not trying to be nasty here by the words I'm going to use, but rather just trying to make a point, and that is, the "TRNC" is nothing more than a "Gece Kondu" or it is being "squattered" by other than it's rightful owners. This also includes TC'a as well as GC's. I'm sure the present situation has forced many TC's to abandon the "TRNC" because they do not want to be part of the "corrupted society". For the benefit of those who do not know what "Gece Kondu" is, it is something that was very common sight for me as a child living in Turkey, where a large group of people would bring material and tools and would erect a house without a permit from Dusk to Dawn and move into it. It was just an skeleton of a house, but a house all the same. By midday, the authorities would come and knock it down. But on occasions, if it was built in more remote places, then it will be much longer, if ever, that the authorities would find out. So in essence VP, it can only be a matter of time, before the "TRNC" is too knocked down. The only thing stands between you and the knock down, is the occupying force. Do not forget, Time does not stand still.

You try at every opportunity to paint me as a "Turkish hater", but that's because you do not believe in the truth being told to you. You cannot accept that there are TC's out there who are not interested in joining your "corrupt society" or become a "squatter" on other peoples land. You cannot accept those TC's who are honest and have integrity, that makes you look like a common thief in comparison. You cannot accept a fair deal for a settlement as I have put forward many times against none from you, because you are happy with your "squatters" position. You cannot understand why another TC cannot support another TC who violates others Human Rights. How can a TC do this to his TC "brothers" you keep asking yourself. What is wrong with these TC's. Why won't they come and join us to build a "country" bases on crime against humanity. Why are these people so fucking righteous you keep asking yourself. Why....... why........ why........ why..........and when you cannot answer your own questions, because the truth is not where your heart and soul is, then you refer to the oldest trick in the world, which is to smear. That may work against the weak and the vulnareble VP, but it will not work with me or BirKibrisli, but it is the only weapon you have got, but you are yet to realise, that you're shooting blanks.

It was reported couple of weeks ago, that there were about 950,000 flew in and out of Ercan for 2007. At the time I had worked it out, there were on the average 21 flights per day. No doubt most are Turks coming from Turkey, followed by TC's going to the UK/Cyprus and back for family visits. There are already major airlines flying into Larnaca, so why would the major airlines would want to double their capacity and have planes fly to the North also at less than half full, when they know that those wishing to go to the North, can do so by car or by bus, which will take less time than it took them to get to the airport from their homes in the country that they live in. The airlines are continually reducing capacity to fill every seat on the plane so that they can raise their prices due to "supply in demand". First they reduce the supply, then charge you more for it, because there is a shortage of seats. Besides, no major airline is going to fly into a country where part of the land is under occupation without that said country's permission.

What you have not come to terms with, is that the "TRNC" is not a "legal country" but an occupied part of another country. I know you think you function as a country and all the pieces are in place to make believe it is country, but Hollywood also make a lot of "make believes" in their films, but does not make it so. Perhaps there will be a "make believe county" Oscar awards will be handed out to all the de facto "countries" around the world. I think the "TRNC" stands a good chance of winning, only because they are trying so hard to convince everyone, that they are a "country". The only way you can be a country VP, is with the permission of the RoC that does not exist as far as you are concerned. Forget any BBF and go for a complete "clean break" and really be Independent, in exchange for the land that does not belong to you. As soon as you have done that, then I will congratulate you becoming the "masters of your own Domain" or as our good friend Halil would say, you will become your own EFENDI.

As for my good command of the English language VP, all I can say to you is.... Hahahahaha.!! I should be so lucky. Do you remember last year there was a member for the shortest time on the forum, who had a brilliant command of the English language which you yourself congratulated him on. Our good friend Miltiades was not too impressed however. I had to agree with Miltiades. There were a lot of "big words" used by that person, but sounded more like a robot than a real person. How would you have liked to be stuck with this person on a long train ride and he never stopped talking.

Good luck at the Oscars VP.!!!

[Kikapu]

TRNC Internal Affairs Minister states only 60 people have been given citizenship over the past 4 years, the 50.000 plus claim are propaganda and lies.

That's strange, because for the last few weeks, the report of extra 50,000 "new TC" citizens for the "Aliens" has been coming from Turkey and the "TRNC governments" statements.

Are you sure the above statement is not just another Propaganda.???

No its not propaganda, since the Soyer government settlers have not been given citizenship they are given work permitts which they have to renew or leave. If they delay in renewing their are penalities. I had a settler worker do some work on my home he said he has lived in the TRNC for 3 years but was unable to get citizenship. Goes to show all is not what it seems.

That may be the case with the "Alien" who has worked on your home VP, but my post to Skipper few days ago was giving the scenario, where Turkey will hand pick 50,000 Turks in Turkey who are Nationalist, loyal to the Turkish flag, and worship Ataturk to be given "TC citizenship's" who will vote in what ever Turkey wants. Besides that, once these hand picked "new TC citizens" get their papers, they will be able to sponsor their families to become "TC citizens" also. Within a very short time, you will have 150,000-200,000 "new TC citizens" who will out vote the True TC's. You and Zan were there promoting this as, "we can do what ever we want with our country", so you knew it to be true, so now it is not.?? I think Soyer is beginning to see the panic in the True TC's and is trying to calm the panic of the TC's stampeding out of the "TRNC". This story has been circulating for over a month now, and he has finally decided to make a statement of being just a "Propaganda". The original statements came from Turkey and the "TRNC" government, so who are the Propagandist VP.?? That's a question by the way and not a statement...just making sure.!!

[Kikapu]

By the way, talking about lack of tourist to the "TRNC", I was at the Travel exhibition last Saturday at the Zurich FESPO 08, as I go every year. I've already written before, that last year there was a stand promoting Northern Cyprus but was not under the name "TRNC". I had also mentioned, that they really did not have too much to offer and very few people stopped and asked questions. I did, because I was making plans to come to Cyprus last year, so I was interested to get some information. Well, this year, Northern Cyprus did not have a stand to represent the "TRNC" I don't know what the reasons were, political or pure financial. As always, I did enjoy the free Turkish Coffee at the Turkey stand. Ironically, Turkey and the RoC stands are always next to each other. Kind of strange, since they do not even recognise each other. Perhaps it is the case of "In you face sucker" may be the message to each other.

[Viewpoint]

TRNC Internal Affairs Minister states only 60 people have been given citizenship over the past 4 years, the 50.000 plus claim are propaganda and lies.

That's strange, because for the last few weeks, the report of extra 50,000 "new TC" citizens for the "Aliens" has been coming from Turkey and the "TRNC governments" statements.

Are you sure the above statement is not just another Propaganda.???

No its not propaganda, since the Soyer government settlers have not been given citizenship they are given work permitts which they have to renew or leave. If they delay in renewing their are penalities. I had a settler worker do some work on my home he said he has lived in the TRNC for 3 years but was unable to get citizenship. Goes to show all is not what it seems.

That may be the case with the "Alien" who has worked on your home VP, but my post to Skipper few days ago was giving the scenario, where Turkey will hand pick 50,000 Turks in Turkey who are Nationalist, loyal to the Turkish flag, and worship Ataturk to be given "TC citizenship's" who will vote in what ever Turkey wants. Besides that, once these hand picked "new TC citizens" get their papers, they will be able to sponsor their families to become "TC citizens" also. Within a very short time, you will have 150,000-200,000 "new TC citizens" who will out vote the True TC's. You and Zan were there promoting this as, "we can do what ever we want with our country", so you knew it to be true, so now it is not.?? I think Soyer is beginning to see the panic in the True TC's and is trying to calm the panic of the TC's stampeding out of the "TRNC". This story has been circulating for over a month now, and he has finally decided to make a statement of being just a "Propaganda". The original statements came from Turkey and the "TRNC" government, so who are the Propagandist VP.?? That's a question by the way and not a statement...just making sure.!!

Any independent links to support your claim?