Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

VP

We said yes to the BBF solution out forward by the UN you rejected it so dont you think its upto GCs to bring about a BBF?

try again ..... this time may be we can have a reall BBF without Turkey having a say what happens in Cypriot land. Give it another go and show that your the better side.

I stand to be corrected you said yes to the Anan Plan. The other side said No to the Anan Plan

WHat happens if we go through all that shit again and the GCs still say no? where then? how many goes do you want to get 100% of everything you demand??

[Kikapu]

Kikapu You give the example of issuing a driving licence as a test of the 'stateness' of a country. I'm not sure driving licences are good examples regarding recognition of a state and a distinct jurisdiction, so let's take something fundamental like marriage certificates or birth certificates. For those who say because TRNC is not recognised as a country/state then its jurisdiction including law-setting powers which includes citizenship tests are also not recognised, they are mistaken. If you got married in TRNC or had a baby born in TRNC then those certificates issued by the ostensibly unrecognised TRNC are STILL RECOGNISED by other jurisdictions and other states.

CopperLine,

My use of the Drivers Licence point was to illustrate, that having a fake drivers licence created by me is not going to work when there is already a legal driving licence system in operation. The "TRNC" may want to act like my fake driving licence, [color=red]but will not be recognised by other authorities,[/color] hence the fact that the "TRNC" is not recognised as a country by the World, because it is a "fake drivers licence". By you using the marriage and birth certificates in the "TRNC" being recognised by others is hardly relevant. No body denies that TC's live or exists in the "TRNC". I have used a birth certificate issued by the "TRNC" when I applied for my US citizenship many years ago, even though I was not born in the "TRNC", but rather in Cyprus, so that is not the point. Adjustments are made to minimize certain problems to the TC's that are politically based, so not to hinder their day to day life. Same time, two astronauts could have gotten married on the moon, or the space station or on a cruise ship in the middle of the ocean, and their marriage would still count in the eyes of the world, despite all those events taking place in NO country at all, recognised or not. It is not intended to deny individual TC's anything by the world, but rather denying a "state" within a State that is acting illegally in the formation of that "state" and then try claiming to be or wanting to be legal, by asking the International community to recognise them. So, individuals are recognised as TC's even if they live in a illegal state, but the illegal state is not recognised as a country.

Stop banging your against the wall again Kiks.....It WILL come....

According to the government, this constitutes implicit recognition of the TRNC by Britain.

In the meantime while you are waiting Zan, enjoy driving under my "fake driver's licence".

[zan]

Kikapu, we have done what we had to do in order to survive the siege and that is the end of the story. Now a ready and sustainable population is needed for our continued success and we will do what is necessary again. Your thick head will not listen to what is going on around the world as far as sustaining a country for the long term is concerned and whether it is just short sightedness, nostalgia or plain propaganda on your part it is just as annoying. Do you think that the "RoC" is the same place as it was twenty years ago. My sister crossed over last year and said she could not wait to get back because she thought she left Haringey behind in the UK. Not that I care what goes on there but the quite sleepy villages with donkey drawn carts are no more my friend...Long live the future.

Zan,

We survived for over 400 years in Cyprus as a minority, so what makes you think we could not do so now as Turkish Cypriots without having to "flood our ethnicity" with another that is close to ours. This tells me that you have no intentions of remaining as a TC but rather TC+Turk in a separate country away from Cyprus called the "TRNC". Well Zan, please do not pretend that flooding of our unique TC's culture with the culture of Turkey was at our request. It was not. Once again we were told what to do by those who can, making us believe that they are there for our own good and for our own survival....Hardly. We have now put into motion with the flooding by Turks into our unique TC culture on course for our extinction. What the "Greeks" and the British could not have done in the past 400+ years, will be done in a very short time by the Turks, and you want to believe that they have done so for our survival. Only Turkey's entry into the EU will change course now, if the "Greeks" wanted to help us survive as a TC community that is, or they may just watch from a distance and see us disappear into the sunset by denying Turkey access to the West by leaving them in Asia, along with the "TRNC". 2004 changed everything Zan. It is time for you to face some facts.

There's only ONE Haringey and only ONE Green Lanes in the world, and that is in North London. I did not see any "Haringey's" in the RoC last year. As for my nostalgia for the reminiscence of the old days with donkey and carts being long gone, it is true for the most part. Yes, it is true that the carts have gone, but the Donkeys remained, but have evolved from walking on four legs to walking upright on two legs now. They still however, make the same noise.!!!

We will do what we have to do with the options we are given....You can dream all you like but the rest of us will keep our feet firmly on the ground...We have had enough of poverty and now the money is rolling in it will be a less bitter pill to swallow.........40 years of siege mentality has to end and unless you can think of a way of producing 300,000 TCs in the next five minutes then leave us be. Once we are secure economically then more TCs from abroad will move back and when my children finish their schooling I will return too if times permit. I now have a country to return to!!!

[Kikapu]

We will do what we have to do with the options we are given....You can dream all you like but the rest of us will keep our feet firmly on the ground...We have had enough of poverty and now the money is rolling in it will be a less bitter pill to swallow.........40 years of siege mentality has to end and unless you can think of a way of producing 300,000 TCs in the next five minutes then leave us be. Once we are secure economically then more TCs from abroad will move back and when my children finish their schooling I will return too if times permit. I now have a country to return to!!!

That's fine Zan, as long as you know, that you will be bringing your children into a "corrupted society" and a "corrupted state" built on ethnic cleansing and violations of Human and Democratic Rights of the rightful citizens of Cyprus when we could have taken other options other than the ones I've mentioned above, and the AP was not one of them. We could have chosen True Democracy over "Pirates of the Mediterranean".

Anyway, the above is your dream which I do not believe is in the cards. The added "new citizens" are not in the "TRNC" for our sake, but rather for the sake of Turkey's EU entry. Enjoy your dream as long as it lasts Zan. We all have our "day dreams". Mine actually has much more fantasy than yours, so who am I to knock yours.

[Viewpoint]

To Copperline and Zan regarding their comments above.

A policy of colonisation is evident on the ground. Bringing people over and settling them in GC properties is one such piece of evidence. Another is the political organization of settlers and their active part in TRNC politics. Do not take my word for it, read statements and articles by concerned TC politicians who know the situation better than any of us in this forum.

In any future solution when the populations will be concentrated in one side of the island there is a real risk of a race problem between TCs and mainland Turks, as well as problems between the mainlanders themselves. There is no need to import these problems in Cyprus.

Those who advocate the legalisation of settlers are not communicating with the Cypriot in themeselves. Just imagine how you would feel dealing with the Federal buraucracy if the employee you are talking to is not a Cypriot but a mainland Greek or mainland Turk. Does that make you feel as a citizen of an independent and free nation? And how about seeing nationals of both mainlands being eligible for elected office and perhaps elected.

Those who say the above examples do not bother them are either not Cypriots or they have reached a level of cosmopolitan thinking which obviously escapes me.

Assuming I am alive and in possession of my faculties when a solution comes about, and that solution grants any kind of privilieges to settlers of any nationality over and above what Cypriots get, I will go to court for it. My demand will be equal treatment with settlers and I do believe I will win my case. There is an element of anti Cypriot discrimination in provisions made for settlers and I am surprised that Cypriots of any community cannot see it.

Nikitas,

The settlers are brought to the "TRNC" for one reason and one reason only, whether peace or no peace, partition or no partition, reconciliation or no reconciliation. They are there to take away the voice (vote) of the TC's and place it in the hands of the Turks. Either the Turks will use their majority voice to vote the way they want to vote to bring about a settlement that gives them the best chance to get into the EU, or worse case scenario, Turks will be the rulers over the TC's in the North, if Turkey does not get into the EU. If the latter one happens, in some years in the future, there will be memorial walking paths and trails named after the the TC's who once lived on the island of Cyprus, much like the Trails we have for the
Kickapoo (Kikapoo, Kikapu) Indian tribes in the Southwestern USA, who have mostly long vanished from the face of the Earth due to the arrival of the Settlers from Europe, and now only a few thousand are remaining.

Rather the Turks than the GCs.

[zan]

Kikapu You give the example of issuing a driving licence as a test of the 'stateness' of a country. I'm not sure driving licences are good examples regarding recognition of a state and a distinct jurisdiction, so let's take something fundamental like marriage certificates or birth certificates. For those who say because TRNC is not recognised as a country/state then its jurisdiction including law-setting powers which includes citizenship tests are also not recognised, they are mistaken. If you got married in TRNC or had a baby born in TRNC then those certificates issued by the ostensibly unrecognised TRNC are STILL RECOGNISED by other jurisdictions and other states.

CopperLine,

My use of the Drivers Licence point was to illustrate, that having a fake drivers licence created by me is not going to work when there is already a legal driving licence system in operation. The "TRNC" may want to act like my fake driving licence, [color=red]but will not be recognised by other authorities,[/color] hence the fact that the "TRNC" is not recognised as a country by the World, because it is a "fake drivers licence". By you using the marriage and birth certificates in the "TRNC" being recognised by others is hardly relevant. No body denies that TC's live or exists in the "TRNC". I have used a birth certificate issued by the "TRNC" when I applied for my US citizenship many years ago, even though I was not born in the "TRNC", but rather in Cyprus, so that is not the point. Adjustments are made to minimize certain problems to the TC's that are politically based, so not to hinder their day to day life. Same time, two astronauts could have gotten married on the moon, or the space station or on a cruise ship in the middle of the ocean, and their marriage would still count in the eyes of the world, despite all those events taking place in NO country at all, recognised or not. It is not intended to deny individual TC's anything by the world, but rather denying a "state" within a State that is acting illegally in the formation of that "state" and then try claiming to be or wanting to be legal, by asking the International community to recognise them. So, individuals are recognised as TC's even if they live in a illegal state, but the illegal state is not recognised as a country.

Stop banging your against the wall again Kiks.....It WILL come....

According to the government, this constitutes implicit recognition of the TRNC by Britain.

In the meantime while you are waiting Zan, enjoy driving under my "fake driver's licence".

Words...Just words Kiks....We have a passport and a Kimlik Card and we walk through airports as free people...Just because they don't count in your toy town mentality does not make it any less valid.

[zan]

We will do what we have to do with the options we are given....You can dream all you like but the rest of us will keep our feet firmly on the ground...We have had enough of poverty and now the money is rolling in it will be a less bitter pill to swallow.........40 years of siege mentality has to end and unless you can think of a way of producing 300,000 TCs in the next five minutes then leave us be. Once we are secure economically then more TCs from abroad will move back and when my children finish their schooling I will return too if times permit. I now have a country to return to!!!

That's fine Zan, as long as you know, that you will be bringing your children into a "corrupted society" and a "corrupted state" built on ethnic cleansing and violations of Human and Democratic Rights of the rightful citizens of Cyprus when we could have taken other options other than the ones I've mentioned above, and the AP was not one of them. We could have chosen True Democracy over "Pirates of the Mediterranean".

Anyway, the above is your dream which I do not believe is in the cards. The added "new citizens" are not in the "TRNC" for our sake, but rather for the sake of Turkey's EU entry. Enjoy your dream as long as it lasts Zan. We all have our "day dreams". Mine actually has much more fantasy than yours, so who am I to knock yours.

You keep your Pirates, the "RoC", and accept their tricks to steal away your country and I will keep mine. Just because they have their Jolly Roger obscured by the real flag of the Cyprus Republic does not make hem saints......Those of us with 20/20 vision can see straight through it...You need to go to speck savers.......

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu You give the example of issuing a driving licence as a test of the 'stateness' of a country. I'm not sure driving licences are good examples regarding recognition of a state and a distinct jurisdiction, so let's take something fundamental like marriage certificates or birth certificates. For those who say because TRNC is not recognised as a country/state then its jurisdiction including law-setting powers which includes citizenship tests are also not recognised, they are mistaken. If you got married in TRNC or had a baby born in TRNC then those certificates issued by the ostensibly unrecognised TRNC are STILL RECOGNISED by other jurisdictions and other states.

CopperLine,

My use of the Drivers Licence point was to illustrate, that having a fake drivers licence created by me is not going to work when there is already a legal driving licence system in operation. The "TRNC" may want to act like my fake driving licence, but will not be recognised by other authorities, hence the fact that the "TRNC" is not recognised as a country by the World, because it is a "fake drivers licence". By you using the marriage and birth certificates in the "TRNC" being recognised by others is hardly relevant. No body denies that TC's live or exists in the "TRNC". I have used a birth certificate issued by the "TRNC" when I applied for my US citizenship many years ago, even though I was not born in the "TRNC", but rather in Cyprus, so that is not the point. Adjustments are made to minimize certain problems to the TC's that are politically based, so not to hinder their day to day life. Same time, two astronauts could have gotten married on the moon, or the space station or on a cruise ship in the middle of the ocean, and their marriage would still count in the eyes of the world, despite all those events taking place in NO country at all, recognised or not. It is not intended to deny individual TC's anything by the world, but rather denying a "state" within a State that is acting illegally in the formation of that "state" and then try claiming to be or wanting to be legal, by asking the International community to recognise them. So, individuals are recognised as TC's even if they live in a illegal state, but the illegal state is not recognised as a country.

Your best trick kikapu twisting and squirming, TRNC documents are recognized and used all over the world, I knwo how much this makes your stomache churn but facts are facts.

[zan]

Kikapu You give the example of issuing a driving licence as a test of the 'stateness' of a country. I'm not sure driving licences are good examples regarding recognition of a state and a distinct jurisdiction, so let's take something fundamental like marriage certificates or birth certificates. For those who say because TRNC is not recognised as a country/state then its jurisdiction including law-setting powers which includes citizenship tests are also not recognised, they are mistaken. If you got married in TRNC or had a baby born in TRNC then those certificates issued by the ostensibly unrecognised TRNC are STILL RECOGNISED by other jurisdictions and other states.

CopperLine,

My use of the Drivers Licence point was to illustrate, that having a fake drivers licence created by me is not going to work when there is already a legal driving licence system in operation. The "TRNC" may want to act like my fake driving licence, but will not be recognised by other authorities, hence the fact that the "TRNC" is not recognised as a country by the World, because it is a "fake drivers licence". By you using the marriage and birth certificates in the "TRNC" being recognised by others is hardly relevant. No body denies that TC's live or exists in the "TRNC". I have used a birth certificate issued by the "TRNC" when I applied for my US citizenship many years ago, even though I was not born in the "TRNC", but rather in Cyprus, so that is not the point. Adjustments are made to minimize certain problems to the TC's that are politically based, so not to hinder their day to day life. Same time, two astronauts could have gotten married on the moon, or the space station or on a cruise ship in the middle of the ocean, and their marriage would still count in the eyes of the world, despite all those events taking place in NO country at all, recognised or not. It is not intended to deny individual TC's anything by the world, but rather denying a "state" within a State that is acting illegally in the formation of that "state" and then try claiming to be or wanting to be legal, by asking the International community to recognise them. So, individuals are recognised as TC's even if they live in a illegal state, but the illegal state is not recognised as a country.

Your best trick kikapu twisting and squirming, TRNC documents are recognized and used all over the world, I knwo how much this makes your stomache churn but facts are facts.

He does like to use his little catch phrases VP....I wonder what happened to the Haram word he was so happy about a little while ago.....I think he was told by someone that thought he knew Turks that that word would stop us in our tracks...

[Kikapu]

Nikitas,

The settlers are brought to the "TRNC" for one reason and one reason only, whether peace or no peace, partition or no partition, reconciliation or no reconciliation. They are there to take away the voice (vote) of the TC's and place it in the hands of the Turks. Either the Turks will use their majority voice to vote the way they want to vote to bring about a settlement that gives them the best chance to get into the EU, or worse case scenario, Turks will be the rulers over the TC's in the North, if Turkey does not get into the EU. If the latter one happens, in some years in the future, there will be memorial walking paths and trails named after the the TC's who once lived on the island of Cyprus, much like the Trails we have for the
Kickapoo (Kikapoo, Kikapu) Indian tribes in the Southwestern USA, who have mostly long vanished from the face of the Earth due to the arrival of the Settlers from Europe, and now only a few thousand are remaining.

Rather the Turks than the GCs.

Once again you are demonstrating your Fascist and Racist views VP, by wanting to deny the rightful owners of whose property and heritage lies in the North. You would have made a fine officer in Hitler's Army. Bad timing on your part I guess by being born in the wrong era.

Well, at least you do make an exception to at least one GC, your good friend Bananiot. I don't know how you can earn his respect each time you make your Racist colours show towards his people.

Yeah yeah I know, that he is an Intellect unlike me, so save your breath.!!