Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

Piratis

It's the details that are important anyway. From a TC point of view its important that their federal state is comprised of mostly TC's and that when voting for your own state gov. you have a voting write based on your ethnic background ( so if a GC lived in the north state he would again vote for the state gov. in the south and vise versa). Do you find this acceptable?

No umit, this is not acceptable! It goes against every single democratic or human rights principle that has ever existed so far! Each individual should have the right to exercise their political rights at and from within the place in which they permanently reside, and pay taxes to! You cannot live in one place and choose the representatives of another place, far away from you; and some others who live far away from where you live, will be choosing and electing the reprehensive which will be making the decisions affecting you and the place in which you permanently live and pay taxes to!

As I said earlier (above,) if the TCs are afraid that the members of the GC community will one day become the majority in both states, something I personally regard as impossible, then two ways can regulate this issue. The first is to reduce the territory of one of the states in which they want to remain the majority, down to a percentage as close to their population percentage as possible; and secondly, they will all (or at least the vast majority of them) have to remain as permanent residents of this state, for ever! My formula, which I mentioned in this forum many times, is that each state should be able to accept Cypriot population approximately equal to its territorial percentage! If the TCs wish to be the majority in a state that has a territory equal to 30% of Cyprus (like the one proposed by Kofi Anan,) then it means that from the 18-19% that their population numbers, up to the 30% that the state’s territory will be, the difference should be covered by GCs, with full political rights in this state! If half of the TCs will choose in the future to evacuate that state and move as permanent residents into the other state, then the gap that will be created should potentially be able to be filled by GCs moving into this state, so that the Cypriot population of each of the two states will again correspond to their size! You cannot be the 18-19% of Cypriots and logically or seriously expect us at the same time to accept that you should have the right to be ruling alone the 30% of Cyprus territory and the 50% of its coastlines! If you do not like it in this way, then you can have a state in which for sure will always be the majority, with only 18%-20% of the territory of Cyprus!

[Kifeas]

Piratis

If you talk about a fed. of the nature you mention . It can also be interpreted as "Hellenization" of the island. What do you also suggest, that we sing the Greek National anthem together with you?

This is nonsense! It is your community that wanted to impose on the GCs your own nationalistic ideology, as in the Anan plan, and not the other way around! Just read the constitution that you have prepared with the collaboration of Kofi Anan and Alvara de Soto for the so-called TC constituent state, and compare it with the one that was prepare for the GC constituent state! What you have aimed to do against us GCs that would have wanted to return back to our ancestral lands in the north, do not try to blame us for wanting to do it against you, without a single evidence!

[umit07]

Piratis

It's the details that are important anyway. From a TC point of view its important that their federal state is comprised of mostly TC's and that when voting for your own state gov. you have a voting write based on your ethnic background ( so if a GC lived in the north state he would again vote for the state gov. in the south and vise versa). Do you find this acceptable?

There is no kind of federation (or state for that matter) that discriminates among its residence based on their ethnic background. The TCs should realize that BBF does not mean partition. TCs will not have a separate country. BBF is not just a term invented to disguise the partition dream of TCs, and if such kind of disguised partition "BBF" is proposed to us will will reject it as we did with Annan plan.

Piratis

If the Annan plan was partion , then why did denktash strongly oppose it?
Are you trying to say that the 35 % of the TC's who opposed the plan did it because they didn't want partition?

[umit07]

What it means is a Federation made by two component states (bi-zonal) where each in each state the majority of the population comes from one of the two communities (bi communal).

For such thing to happen however the details must be agreed and it must be approved by both Greek and Turkish Cypriots. Until that happens the only thing that exists and who everybody is obligated to respect are the 1960 agreements and Republic of Cyprus.
The Turkish side thinks that by illegally occupying the north part of Cyprus they can blackmail us and force us to accept a "solution" that they like. This however will never happen. For a BBF to happen it requires that both sides make compromises from the rights they had with the 1960 agreements. The TC impression that the new agreement should be better for them and worst for us is totally false as we will never accept such thing.

Which Republic of Cyprus is that Piratis? The one after 63? or the one before?

[umit07]

Kifeas

I never read the Annan Plan "constitution" for GC state what bugged you about it so much, did it finally make you realise that you had to share the gifts of the original ROC with us?

[Piratis]

Piratis

If the Annan plan was partion , then why did denktash strongly oppose it?
Are you trying to say that the 35 % of the TC's who opposed the plan did it because they didn't want partition?

Denktash opposed it because thats what Denctash always does. By keep rejecting everything while our stupid leaders prior to Papadopoulos ( Vassiliou / Cleredes) keep making more and more compromises, every new proposal made was closer to the Turkish position. If you gave to Denctash the 100% of what he asked, he would again say no and ask for 200%.

Furthermore the status quo where they can bring more Settlers and give them "citizenships" to vote for him and his son is perfect for Denctash. Why would he want a change?

[DT.]

Kifeas

I never read the Annan Plan "constitution" for GC state what bugged you about it so much, did it finally make you realise that you had to share the gifts of the original ROC with us?

Umit read carefully what they're saying first and stop replying with slogans. If you disagree then say which part of what they write do you disagree with.

[umit07]

Ok DT .

I'm a bit moody today. But I don't think denktash said "NO" because the Annan Plan was Partition as Pirates says. If denktas wanted to just be popular and get the votes he would of said "Yes" . All the annan plan stuff took place at a time when junior denktas had only 7-8 mp's in parliment out of 50. They were in a state were nobody gave a shit what they thought. So denktas couldn't of gained anything from saying "no". It only made him the loser at that time. As for Tpap I don't think he has changed a bit from the time he was co-writer of the Akritas Plan.

[DT.]

Ok DT .

I'm a bit moody today. But I don't think denktash said "NO" because the Annan Plan was Partition as Pirates says. If denktas wanted to just be popular and get the votes he would of said "Yes" . All the annan plan stuff took place at a time when junior denktas had only 7-8 mp's in parliment out of 50. They were in a state were nobody gave a shit what they thought. So denktas couldn't of gained anything from saying "no". It only made him the loser at that time. As for Tpap I don't think he has changed a bit from the time he was co-writer of the Akritas Plan.

Denktash would say no to anything that endangers his legacy to the world, the "trnc".

If the annan plan came in place his little island house might need to be returned to someone along with the 100's of donums he was given by the turkish army.

[umit07]

DT

He has lost control of the TRNC anyway and if it endangered the TRNC as you say it would mean that the annan plan wasn't partition as pirates says. So the only argument left is that he said "no" because he was gonna loose a lot of land?

DT as far as I can see it GC's want a state in which we all lived mixed we all have one vote and we all live as one Cypriot Nation.

The problem is that past acts have borne the tendancy of us to live in an area in which we are in majority, like we are now. This raises the problem of not all refugees are going to be able to go back to their property. ( By the way are there any surveys of how many refugees would not want to go back and are willing to recieve some sort of compensation? ) .

Not all TC's would be able to go back as well ven if they wanted to the ROC has unlawfully expropriated a lot of TC land as well eg. part of larnaka airport. I even met an english guy that had a house in paphos he said that the area he lived used to be a mixed village and that which was ethnically clensed of TC's in the 60's and that nearly all the houses had bits and pieces of TC land within them. Just giving this as an example to show that you guys aren't actually doing everything by the book as you say.

All I can say DT that these coming few years will be the decider on the fate of cyprus, hope it works out for the best for both sides.